Alexis 0:00

Hello everybody and welcome to the MoCo Podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your host. Nice to meet you. The MoCo Podcast is the place to celebrate and highlight women, trans women, and non-binary folk working within stem and trade occupations. So please tune in, take a break, join us. We're on smoke o, and today we're extremely lucky to be joined by the lovely Emily Pencer, who is a civil engineer. She's a project manager where she specializes in structural and transportation engineering. In her spare time, she does TikTok and Instagram as well, where she talks about her experience of working as a woman within this industry, working as a woman within engineering. She does amazing content of day in the life, what it means to be an engineer, what it means to authentically present yourself in this industry. And I just can't wait to have this conversation. So Emily, thank you so much for off. Thank you to the podcast.

Emily 0:50

So nice. So a nice introduction. Hey, it's real nice hype up and yes, thanks for having me. Like I said, this is something I love to do. Just bring more awareness to the field, bring more awareness to girls and engineering girls in construction. So thank you for reaching out.

Alexis 1:07

It's an honor to have you on the show. And that hype up is real because that hype up is just right up a resume. To start us out, Emily, I love this question and I ask a variant of it probably every time. Have you always known that you were gonna be an engineer or was this kind of a stumble into the field by happenstance?

Emily 1:24

I actually never thought I was gonna be an engineer. That was no, nowhere in my line of thinking. I used to always wanna be a doctor since I was little. I did the whole sciences route. I kept doing that. I was always good at math and physics and science. And then, in Quebec we have something called cip. Which is like a pre grade 12 and first year university equivalent. So during that I was in the health science program, assuming that I would maybe go to med school or a different biology program. And then I quickly realized I hated organic chemistry and had I like that wasn't it for me? And I realized that I was way stronger in just math physics. So that's when I decided to just apply it to an engineering program. I didn't even know really what engineering was like when I thought of engineering, I guess I thought of buildings. And my friend told me like, civil engineering is a popular one. So that was just the only engineering field I applied into. Like I didn't apply to any other field. I got in and I was weighing out, do I go into. Another like biology program. And then hope I get into med school after that, which is tricky, or do I just change it up? So I just risked it and went into engineering without knowing much about it. Oh my God. But I was really lucky that I really like it and now I can't really picture myself and any, anything else.

Alexis 2:53

That's crazy. I love it because I think that's a really common, answer. I don't think many people like know, especially as young women, I don't think that we know that these fields even exist or like we Yeah. Have a concept of what it means to be an engineer.

Emily 3:06

Exactly. I didn't know how many, even like friends or people older than me in school who went into it so

Alexis 3:13

It's crazy that you had no idea that you only applied to one. I love that you only applied to civil. What was it about civil and engineering that like clicked over once you started it, that you were like, oh yeah, you know what, this is actually for me.

Emily 3:25

I think I realized just that it was also like process of elimination. Once I was in engineering and I found out more about what the other fields of engineering were like, mechanical and software, industrial mining, I realized that I wouldn't like any of those. I like the more big picture stuff, first of all. Like I hate techy stuff, like I'm not good with computers or programming, so definitely not software engineering and then like mechanical and electrical, like I'm just not good at all. That little. Techy little machines, so concrete buildings. Bridges that seemed really cool to me in just like big picture infrastructure. And when I was learning, especially the structural engineering courses about, how they calculate how much materials I need or how will they know if something's strong enough to support something. When I was taking those classes, it was like very real life applicable. Like I would be doing the same type of things if I were a structural engineer. And I just found that really cool. I'm the one who can now know if something supports something or I'm the one who can potentially help design a bridge or something big like that. And although I didn't go into structural engineering and design. That's just always something I wanted to be a part of in some way.

Alexis 4:48

That's a beautiful answer. I felt like anyone listening could be like, yes, that's why I would like to become a civil engineer as well. But I also think that there is definitely a pull and I could see a comparison between even becoming a doctor in civil engineering. Like I feel the commonality of that is helping people and having the big impact. I like that it finally kinda, kicked in and that you were like, yeah, this is for me. Is there a technical side of why you love civil engineering?

Emily 5:13

I would say that just as I was learning these things, like the structural engineering courses was what really interested me. Because we were really using like the code books, we were using the same materials that the real engineers would be using and, we would do practice problems in school basically. Design this bridge, pick what cool beam sizes you need, pick what GERD or sizes you need and you would have to look through the codebook, do all that. So it just felt really like real life applicable and that was cool. Wouldn't have thought that what I learned in school could just be used straight outta school in real life. Yeah. That's really cool. When you're thinking of like engineering and how someone designs a bridge, it seems so vague and you're just like, I have no idea where they would start. How did that happen? Yeah. How is someone trusted with that? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I guess it was cool to actually see no, it's possible and just take step by step.

Alexis 6:12

Really cool to be able to be almost, to build it on paper to be like, yeah, I just created a bridge on paper. Yeah. Slide. And to do that practical step of it. I really like from your content, when you're doing your TOS and your Instagram is you do a lot of day in the life, which I love because I feel like it's a little bit different. If you're not an engineer, you don't really have any concept what does a civil engineer do? What does a day in the life look like? So could you maybe explain what a day in the life is? What is the rules and responsibilities of your job when you're looking at transportation, specialty and excavation? What does that actually look like?

Emily 6:46

Just to start like civil engineering, you can go into so many different roles. You can be a design engineer or you can work in construction, et cetera. I specialized in structural and transportation engineering when I was in school. But I didn't go into design for my job. I went straight into the construction industry. And, now I'm project manager, so love it. I do more, it's like a connection between the engineering side and the construction side onsite. So project management basically involves everything from the start of the project. Right to the end of it. So depending what field you're in, you could be doing different types of things and what projects. But basically I do, quantity takeoff. So before a project starts, we have to basically from the plans we get from the engineers, calculate all the materials we need, like how much pavement to be installed. All the quantities for the project, we calculate based off the plans. I also prepare the schedule before the project, since the client, then there becomes all the execution stuff. So when the project is going on, right now, I work on site. So I coordinate all the time with the foreman on site who are doing the work. And basically I have to place all the material orders. I have to track the materials and how they're using it, to make sure that they're not just like, Using all the material. Before the project from the quantity takeoff, I calculate how much they should be using as a time, basically. So if they're going way over that's not, yeah. You know, yeah. That's not acceptable. It's not just like, oh yeah, we ran out, let's order some more. No, the job, the project manager is basically for a project to stay on schedule, on budget and to be done correctly. So that's basically our job to make sure that the site people are doing that work properly and that we stay up to date. So yeah, I do all the material delivery of, I know material orders, I, if there's any change orders. So that's, if the client changes the contract in some way, changes the scope of work, then I need to make sure that the site people are aware that all of that extra work is tracked and then I'll have to prepare a change order. I do things like that pretty often In construction there's changes, like you're changing constantly every day. Yeah. Yep. So I do that. Every time there's a change, I'll have to update the plan, send it. It's a huge job, Emily. It's a lot of like little things like for all, everything that we do, all the equipment that we install, everything needs to have an approved shop drawing. So I reach out to subs, subcontractors, I get price quotes for all the materials and basically the rural sum and construction. So I do that and then I'm constantly talking back and forth with subs to get shop drawings, to change them, to send them to the client, get them approved. Yeah, bunch of stuff like that.

Alexis 9:48

it's very

Emily 9:48

dynamic. Like everything is teamwork. It's not just me, everything's teamwork. Then at the end of the month, like you have to prepare the monthly invoice. So you basically are charging the client for the work that you did that month. I guess a lot of different things. And that's a great thing about being in project management. You learn so much, so fast because you do something once. And you do it again, and then every day you learn something new. Basically there's always a new type of tasks to do that's different. So let's say it's very dynamic and very collaborative teamwork. You're really never working alone. You always need help from someone else. It's not a one person job. No,

Alexis 10:28

You would go crazy if it was a one person job. I think even with a team. Yeah. And like a well oiled team, it's still a huge amount of responsibility. A lot of plates spinning all at the same time. Yeah. A lot of things constantly changing. And then you also have, you're trying to be a good client and to make a good product, but also on budget and on time is almost impossible in construction. Exactly. That's a very hard thing to do. There's always

Emily 10:51

problems, it's very fast paced because you know this problem on site sometimes you can't wait till the next day. Like it's really delaying the work. You need to decide in that moment, what do we do? Hopefully you can talk it out with a client.

Alexis 11:06

How was jumping into project management and going from a true engineering and like design and almost theoretical in school to all of a sudden the real world where it's construction based and you have to be an engineer Yes. How was that transition? Was it hard?

Emily 11:21

I think I always knew I wanted to do that. I never saw myself just doing the design. I saw myself as more of like coordinating the work, managing people, managing the work. I've always wanted to just go into management and, maybe someday be a director, stuff like that. So that it ever scared me per se. But I think it was just a lot more vague of what type of work would I actually be doing day to day. Which is why I love the day in the life videos because when I was in university, like I had no idea still what a civil engineer does unless they're a design engineer. I didn't really get it, you know?

Alexis 11:56

I kudos to you for not being scared. I think I would've been terrified.

Emily 12:00

And I definitely, gets easier as experience. It's still scary, now I recently. Started this new type of position onsite. Before I was always in the office working on a bid for a project. So that itself was very different. There wasn't like urgent issues because we were just in the planning phase of a project, Whereas now like I'm on site and if there's an issue on site, the four men goes to the management people, project managers to find out what to do. So I guess it's a bit more stressful, but exciting and it feels achieving,

Alexis 12:37

I think you brought up a good point with the day in the life. Like it's almost. Impossible to be like, what is a day in the life of a civil engineer when it comes down to project management? Cuz it's so super dynamic, it's always changing

Emily 12:49

I had no idea what they did like day to day. And that's why even sometimes in my videos, it's hard to show it because one day I'll be doing something completely different from what I'm doing the next day and doesn't necessarily capture what my job as a whole is

Alexis 13:04

Do you have a favorite part of your day and do you have, maybe on the flip side of that, do you have something that's a little bit challenging?

Emily 13:12

I would say I love how it's ever boring. A lot of the times it's challenging, but I can never say that I'm bored at work. It's really always different. I just love how it's really dynamic. It's never boring. I get to be outside now sometimes on site. Ooh, that, which is cool. And I think it's just really cool that I get to see something come to life right in front of me. Every day I go on site. And the work that I just planned out on paper is now coming to life in real life. And I'm always shocked by that. Yeah. Yeah. Like of course I've, even the material that I order when it comes to site, I'm like, oh, that's much bigger than I expected. I'm always shocked by how big stuff is. Yeah. Even though I'm like writing the quantity and the dimensions on my paper, but just never feels real. So I love that. A thing that I guess is more challenging is, let's see, there's a lot of challenging things. The hours, working in construction, especially if I'm working on site now, we start early and we have long days, like it's like a 45 hour work week and it's a lot. It's also just very challenging cuz it's so fast paced and there's so much information being thrown your way. Like so many changes to keep track of that. Sometimes you're, you just get brain fog. Someone asks you a question and you just have to snap back into that one specific issue in the back of your head and, try to figure it out. So that's, it's pretty stressful.

Alexis 14:42

Challenging of trying to keep up to date of what is the correct information as everything's changing and coming at you all at once to be like, okay, what is actually real? What is the state of the moment a minute ago? What is about to change?

Emily 14:55

And that's something like new to me since being on site. So you know, I'm still trying to get into the habit of that.

Alexis 15:02

Feel like this is common in our industries is like the changes aren't usually little or really related. Sometimes they're crazy big changes from one thing to the next and it's a complete new model. So I could see that being a champ as

Emily 15:14

well. Exactly. It really depends. Like sometimes our big, just the whole chunk of scope that the client wants to add to the contract, they'll be like excavating and they'll run into a block of concrete that wasn't in the plan. Oh no.

Alexis 15:29

One thing I realized I didn't ask actually at the start, and apologies I should have. Could you maybe describe a little bit about what the actual project?

Emily 15:36

So right now I'm currently on. The last year of a project that's been ongoing, which is basically, to optimize railroad capacity. So, ooh, it's like about a six kilometer stretch where we're adding two railroad tracks and they had originally like a road and then all the railroads, to make room for that. We demolished the old road, put two new railroads, and then built a whole new road for like that five kilometer stretch. So that's the project I'm working on now. And then I'll be switching to the bridge one, which is, goes over like a two kilometer stretch of water and then the highway portions along it. Before this I was just in railroad, I was working on a light rail train at a different company, so the light was a freaking cool. Yeah. So that was the big project in Montreal that I was really lucky to be a part of. And it's cool cause now even now that I'm on a project that has some railroad portion in it, I got to bring over that experience that's, applicable. It's cool jumping around from project to project, seeing how different things are built, made.

Alexis 16:47

I love being able to go from project to project and having a different, breadth of what you're working on.

Emily 16:52

I think there's always, room to change around if you want. I'm very lucky that I got to be in that full bid process. We did nine months of just submitting a bid for a project. Wow. And it's very different from the construction work on site. When I was working on the bid, I was directly working with the engineers cause we made a consortium, so it's when a construction companies joined with engineering firms. So they make the design, the conception, and then we help decide if it's feasible in construction. The construction side of things. So that was very cool. Right now, like. We're separate. The client does a conception, we just do the construction. So it was really cool getting to sit in on those meetings and hearing the designers come up with ideas specializing in structural design. This was like one of the only opportunities I'll have to do that, to really see how they designed the bridge.

Alexis 17:49

What wonderful experience, especially early on in a career, to be able to see that side of it and to see pure design and to have a collaboration in engineering.

Emily 17:57

I suggested to anyone who can get into all phases of project to do that, because that's how you learn. And depending on the project, one project manager will do the whole thing. So they'll do the bid for it, then they'll do the planning of the pre-project planning, they'll do execution, and then they'll do the phase out at the end, closing the project. So it's helpful to know all of it. Depending on what company you work for, what type of projects you're doing, you could be doing it all versus parts.

Alexis 18:28

Thank you for like diving into the project and what it means and maybe taking a little bit step of a step back from the actual project and thinking and engineering more in terms of culture and overall industry. I was wondering if you could speak to a misconception of working in construction, cuz I'm sure you've probably heard some misconceptions or some biases about, working in construction and probably some misconceptions of being a woman in construction.

Emily 18:53

There's a ton first before getting into the whole woman in construction. Yeah. Segment, just construction itself. I think that, maybe something. People don't talk about as often is how important the site construction workers are. Especially like the foreman superintendents. People just think they just do the work and they're not necessarily book smart and they don't necessarily have to understand the engineering behind it. But really a lot of times they know the work better than the engineers. Because they're the ones doing it, a hundred percent. It's pretty complicated stuff. They have to be able to read the shop drawings just like I do. They have to read the plans, take off the elevations, understand all of the technical documents, how to install something. So that's just a huge, misconception that you can't learn from the site people. And it goes both ways. We can learn from them, they can learn from us. It's really a two-way street and everyone gives something to the project, no matter your role. And then in terms of women and engineering, that's a whole other world. Although it's gotten better, there's still a lot of people who are stuck in more traditional ways of thinking and who just assume that women don't belong in construction engineering, but like specifically construction or that we won't be taken seriously, that we're too like shy and timid to be in management roles or, just to keep up with, site people. It's just a huge misconception. Even though the number is low, there are a lot of women in construction and that number. Is going to keep growing a hope. I know directors who are a woman that do the same job as men, just as well. It's just about competence. It's not about totally the girl, boy, anything. Some people just need to get past that misconception that, oh, if you see that you're the engineer on the project as a girl. Maybe they won't be as on it, because that's just not true.

Alexis 20:52

Just to go to your answer about. Two-way learning from your form and your subtrades. I think that is such a good call out and thank you for bringing that up because it's so true. Because usually those people have so much lived experience and they have so much practical knowledge. They know things more than you do. They get there first

Emily 21:12

for sure, like exactly like all the time. And it's good to have a good relationship with them because if they know that you're interested, a lot of times they like to show you and to teach you, if, I don't know, something that's going on in sight, a lot of times before mine will tell me like, okay, I'm gonna do that next week. I'll call you when I'm gonna do it. Calm down and watch. Like I'll show you, I'll explain it to you more. It's just important to, not think too highly of yourself. Even if you're a director, the people on site know a lot and you just have to work with them, collaborate

Alexis 21:47

Found in mining, they always have better tips and tricks that I haven't even thought of. They're already like, again, two steps ahead of you. I remember with drilling, our drilling foreman will know what we've hit before we've even seen the rocks. Just by hearing it alone. They'll be like, oh, you just hit shirt. And you're like, no way, Wayne, there's no shirt. We haven't, we don't think that we're gonna hit that for another hundred meters or something. He was like, Nope, you just hit it. I can hear it. I know it. Exactly.

Emily 22:13

Like they just have hands on experie practical,

Alexis 22:16

your hands on experience. Exactly. That's such a wonderful call out of being like, definitely learned both ways and not to be too high and mighty because sometimes I think as. Young professionals. Maybe it's an insecurity thing of stepping into an industry, but I've seen like young geologists be too high and mighty about theoretical knowledge. Yeah. Versus practical knowledge. Right, exactly. And maybe about like education, and you're like, no, well he didn't go to university, but who knows why that's you. You don't know why someone didn't go to university or if they couldn't go, or if it was too expensive, you have no idea about someone's life, so it shouldn't be

Emily 22:50

judgmental about that. I think that's so important. I love how from your job also have the same similar type of experiences. I think a lot of times engineers are known to have a God complex. That's like an ongoing running joke. But you know, there are a lot of engineers in their job who really do have a complex and who treat others maybe with less education worse because of that. And that's just not true. I know a lot of engineers who I went to school with, even who became superintendents and who just work on the site. So I think that proves a lot that you need to have a certain knowledge and, if an engineer wants to do the job, it's

Alexis 23:31

a good indication that it's like a highly technical, highly skilled math. Exactly. Job. And again, maybe someone doesn't have the qualifications on paper of going to a fancy university, but you have no idea why that's the case. And also they might not need it. They still have that practical experience and they can still do the job. I thank you for bringing that up. To touch on the misconception of women in engineering, I don't know if it's your experience, but I think sometimes it's mine that people are just shocked that you're there and they're like, I can't believe that you work in this industry, and you're like, I do, and I'm here. So I don't really know what the big deal of it is now. I don't know why we're still on this. You know what I mean?

Emily 24:07

I think like you can relate that because he all, he is also like, he all, he and civil engineering specifically, Seems very like just dirty and hands on and Yeah. In the field, you know? Same type of thing, like people just assume oh, you're just a small girl, you're gonna work on construction site.

Alexis 24:26

Yeah, totally. But then you're like, I hear at a construction site like head to toe covered in dirt and they're like, well, you're too Crissy. And you're like, well, like, do you not see me right now? I look like I'm not Chrissy at all. Clearly not. Yeah. Like you can, you can see it with your own eyes, but sometimes I feel like there's that disbelief or that disconnect of like them experiencing it in real life versus it actually sinking it in One thing that I really love about your content and I think is so powerful and I think a lot of women struggle with it in stem, is femininity and presentation within these spaces. Because I think when you first start, you're told to kinda, you have to act a certain way, you have to look a certain way. You have to present as a woman in this industry in a certain way. Could you speak to your experience of this, because I love that you embrace both your femininity and you're completely, authentically you, it sounds like that's not a big deal, but that's very hard to do. It's very scary to do in these environments, sometimes in this industry.

Emily 25:20

I think that's a really big point, especially in construction and civil engineering. Especially if you're working a job on site, people just expect you, people just think that you have to dress a certain way and to act a certain way and that pe like men would think that women even want to dress a certain way and act a certain way to gain respect. Honestly, when I started, I never really thought of that. I think on my first Frizzled light rail train, I started there as an intern, I think I showed up to fork the first day in a dress for sure. Probably because I love wearing dresses, so I never really thought much of it. I always dressed professional, but I never thought that girly doesn't equal, not professional, you know? I just never really thought much of that io what I want, as long as I thought it was professional for a work environment. And yeah, there definitely has been a lot of bias and comments made. One of my first, experiences, someone told me, like a guy who I was working with told me and my friend, actually he told one of. Me and my friends. Friends a guy. That he doesn't think he was like, Emily and blah, blah, blah. I don't think they're gonna do well. I don't know what they do. Like they don't impress me. And our friend who was a guy was like, why? Like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, they do really well. And he was like, well, I don't know, like they're girls and like a girl can't wear a dress on a construction site. He literally said that, and I honestly forget what else he said, but some other just rude comments that didn't make any sense. And he literally didn't even know what me and my friend were doing at this job. And no, it didn't matter. He didn't know what he did either, you know? It didn't matter. Just like a useless, weird comment because first of all, obviously we wouldn't wear a dress on a construction site. There's difference, time and a place. Yes, exactly appropriate to. Doesn't mean that I can't show up to my office job and address, like how would that stop me from doing my job any less well than someone else. I never really thought much of it. I'm very like, genuine about who I am. If I like something, I'll do it. if I like how I look and steak is professional, I'll show up to work in it. And I'm not really shy about that either. If anything, I embrace it. when I knew that I was changing to sight and wouldn't be able to wear my dresses and like heels to work, I wore a dress like every day. I love dressing girly and even on site now I wear pink stuff and I love to wear pink and just show that I'm girly and there's nothing wrong with that. You can be girly and work in construction or you can be. There's no, you can be whoever you are, spectrum. Can. It doesn't really matter at all. Yeah. You just do you. And if you're competent at your job, that's all that matters. So I think girls should just take away from that to not overthink that part to just really be who you are. Like it really makes no difference to your work. And if someone judges you based on that, they probably others talking out of insecurities, I've never had someone like a higher up, respectable person tell me a negative comment like that or ever underestimate me because of how I dress. I just hope that girls don't let that stop them from going into this field like, One of the top questions I get in all my videos are about like, what do I wear to work? Or, I'm scared the guys will not take me seriously. It's all girls being scared to go into male dominated field. And I really get that because they're like, you those comments do get made still. It's not like it's never gonna happen, but I think you just need to show up and do your job. If you can substantiate what you say and if you work hard and seem interested and are a good employee, people will take you seriously. It just takes a matter of time,

Alexis 29:19

When I first started, I was really nervous being one of the only girls and is this environment made for me? And I thought that my clothes could be a type of armor and they could shield me from bias and shield me from sexism, which no, doesn't make any sense when you say it out loud. But I genuinely believed if I presented in a certain way, I was gonna be less subjugated to prejudice. And what I found, what happened, the opposite is I just felt really uncomfortable cause I wasn't presenting like myself. I felt far more competent and follow more myself when I was able to mix kind of both of my two personas and my two presentation together and be more myself at sight. And I thank your advice of just like, keep grinding and just keep doing you and just keep focusing on your work and your output, I think is really valid. But it is a scary thing sometimes with presentation and authentic presentation in these

Emily 30:13

environments. Yeah, I really get where these girls are coming from. Obviously I was, I still sometimes get insecure about being at my job or, being one of the fewer girls. It also just helps to see other girls in your field. At my job now, I see other girls doing the same position as me and they're respected, or I see other directors who are female, so it just, gives you confidence

Alexis 30:36

I do love that your content is really about authenticity. I think that's really powerful.

Emily 30:40

Sometimes it's hard to show the details of the engineering side of what I do, but the biggest thing is just to bring some type of representation to the field and to show girls that just because it's male dominated is definitely not a reason not to accuse it.

Alexis 30:56

Maybe this is the answer to this next question is maybe it's about authenticity and presentation, but if you could think of the future of the construction industry, where would you hope that it goes?

Emily 31:06

I think that in terms of the females in construction, the numbers just going to keep going up. I already see so much more, so many more girls going to engineering and school, like that number, that percentage has been going way up. Civil is one of the more male dominated, specialties of engineering. I think that more and more women are gonna join it. More and more women are gonna get into that upper management and I hope just one day. It's just equal. It's not male dominated, not female dominated. And no one even has to associate that word with the field. You know? It's just, yeah. A job, a field, it's just a job. Exactly. Like other jobs, you're not like, oh, that's like a male dominated field. You're just like, both anyone can do it. I don't know.

Alexis 31:54

And I hope one day we don't have to keep on saying male dominated and how does it feel to be a woman in this field and to dredge up that topic. I hope that goes away. Yeah. I really do. But until that time that we have equity, I think just know that you have so much support and you have so much support from all these women, maybe in different industries, different specialties that have your back and are so proud of you that you're there and then for what you're doing. I think what does need to change is the kind of culture of it

Emily 32:22

and yeah, just the attitude.

Alexis 32:25

And maybe on that, it is a hard industry with culture. What helps you, and keeps you motivated when it's a hard day for you?

Emily 32:33

A lot of things, I now that I ha started this TikTok and one of my biggest just, I guess things that I promote in my TikTok is just being, you being a woman in stem. So now I feel like they like the people, the girls who comment on my videos, they give me motivation to keep going cuz I'm like, They're looking up to me in some way. If I did all this work and I talk about it on my TikTok about how much I love it, or I talk about how important it is to me, then I should be doing it in real life, So that's something also just, I worked so hard in university. I think everyone who did engineering or programs like we did, it was rough. So it's just like, I wouldn't want to give all that away for some hard days, And I think that it just takes time and it gets, takes. Getting used to that hard day, if you had to redo that day in the year would probably seem like an easy day.

Alexis 33:34

I love that. That's a good like mindset shift of like in a year. Yeah. This is gonna be like nothing. I

Emily 33:40

love that. Like every task the first time is so daunting. I'm like, impending doom. But then you get through it and you just feel good. You just feel rewarded. So yeah, I think you just need to also still love what you do. I just find it so cool how I get to work on these big projects and I wouldn't wanna give that up. I've been lucky to have worked on the light rail train and now another big project coming up. It's just huge infrastructure and I never thought, or I never knew I would be, end up in this field at all. I think you just needed to take a step back and really think of where you want to go in the future and just keep working hard on that. And like I don't want people, girls to think that we find it easy, because No, it isn't. I struggle a lot, especially in this new job I have, I get imposter syndrome and a lot of times I'm just and I get a task and I'm like, what? Like I don't understand anything and it just gets me really anxious. And sometimes I think can I really do this? am I really smart enough to do this? Like I see some other people who just. Get it so fast and sometimes that's not me. Sometimes I need to just work harder to get there. And I think that's okay too. Like people are all on different levels and it doesn't mean that all those people can't do the job, you know? So I think it's just important to know that we all struggle and it's not easy, it wasn't easy in school. It's not easy now, but if it's something you're interested in, it's worth it, to go for it.

Alexis 35:11

Thank you for bringing that up, cuz I do think that's also a big thing in our industries we kind of put it onto ourselves that we have to be like, It's intellect forward jobs, right? To be like, okay, like you have to be really smart and intelligent to be able to do what you're doing. And I think that's what gives people God complexes as you're told from like the entire time that you've been in school. That it's difficult and you have to be smart enough to do it. But I think what happens sometimes is you almost forget how much work you went into it of learning it and how much work you had to put into it when you first went to school to learn this kind of foundation and that it was really hard and you struggled with it. Cuz I've been in that situation as well, that at work when someone says something and you instantly don't know what, you're like, oh shit, well am I smart enough? Like maybe I'm, yeah, maybe I'm not. Like maybe I'm a little dumb. Maybe this isn't gonna work. Like you kind of expect yourself to be a robot and to like instantly pick up on it and you're like, no, no, no. It took me 20 hours of crying in the library to understand like this one fundamental thing. Yeah, exactly.

Emily 36:11

Yeah. I think it's very, applicable to what we have to do in the university, and that's one of the biggest parts about our degrees and going through a hard degree. It's not about actually what you learn necessarily, it's just about the work ethic and not giving up, being a hard worker. Like I struggled so much in the university too. I didn't have the best qpa and I failed exams. Oh, me too. I think everyone failed exams in engineering like that I always talk about on my TikTok, but it's, yeah, it's just so true. I failed that and I got through it, so what's the difference now,

Alexis 36:43

And giving yourself that grace to be like, it's okay to kinda, to fail or to feel like you're struggling the first time that you see something new. I the first time that I did stats, I got a D minus I straight up, I failed that course so bad. Yeah. I think I passed with like 15% or something. I had to redo it and I got. An A plus. I went from like rags to riches on that course, but like, yeah. And then you feel so good. Yeah. But it took a lot of work. It wasn't something that instantly clicked. And I think sometimes you forget about that struggle and that growth that you have during university and you think that in a workforce that you're instantly gonna understand something because you're magically a geologist or a scientist or an engineer. Yeah. And that title was only gotten through a lot of work, a lot of practice, and just giving yourself grace when you don't understand something. I think it's a really good point, Emily.

Emily 37:35

And like you learn so much on the job, so it's, he's a constant learning

Alexis 37:40

experience. And to speak on that, on learning, is there kind of like a future thing that you think of that you're excited about, that you're geeking out on right now?

Emily 37:50

There's like a few things. Not necessarily that I'm geeking out on, but just a few things that I can see starting to come into the construction industry that will help us, stuff with all this AI and augmented reality. I've seen some of that now be applicable in terms of like project planning. Obviously you need to do it yourself too, but I've seen those like augmented realities where they help with renderings and, bring up renderings faster. Also things just like cloud sharing between software so everyone can work on like the same project together all at the same time. Stuff like that. And then in terms of like technical stuff, I don't have anything like particular I've heard like some cool things. Oh, maybe one about. Concrete or cement. They're trying. I've seen people start doing research on like self-healing, concrete, so basically, you know, concrete always cracks due to, corrosion, salts, stuff like that. So I've seen different type of things with that or just other type of new technologies with materials. I've seen something talking about the use of like bamboo instead of rebar and concrete. Absolutely. Like instead of the steel rebar. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really know all the science behind it, but I just saw that like headline and I was like, okay,

Alexis 39:11

that's interesting A lot of your TikTok and a lot of your content is really talking to young students and talking to people who are just starting. And I was wondering if you could maybe give them some advice and some pointers if people are just in university for starting engineering, studying engineering, what would be your advice to them?

Emily 39:28

Thank you cuz that is like the main goal of my page. And not just for, to get girls into it, but you know, boys too. Just anyone who doesn't know about engineering. Cuz I didn't know like anything about engineering and I would've loved to see, to have TikTok or stuff like that when I was in school and to see day in the life or, yeah. Just to hear about what people do. Some advice that I always say now is for students and just younger people to do a lot of research and to not be scared to try out different fields. Like how I said that, I just ended up in civil engineering. Yeah. Which process of which I ended up being lucky with it, but, people could probably best to look into the other fields too. And even once you're in a field doesn't mean you can't switch around. Like I know a lot of people who switch even after graduating, like they Oh, totally. Did a civil engineering degree and then switched out later. So I think just try out a lot of different types of jobs. If you have internships or can get internships, definitely do that and try to maybe test out different things every internship. Ask like your professors, older students. Just network a lot to find out what type of jobs there are, because like I said, like civil engineering, it's not just one job. I've been in project management and estimation, but there is so many, job types out there. You can be a field engineer, you could be a designer. You could be in cost control. So I say just really ask around network and keep asking questions to figure out what you like the best. And don't be scared. Don't let any of some male dominated stuff get in your way. Scare woman. Yeah. Get in your way. Just if you like it, do it and you'll be good.

Alexis 41:13

I love that advice. I think it's really super, like practical and applicable maybe one thing that would tie it together too with, the male dominated stuff. And maybe that fear is, like Emily said, that there's so many different jobs out there. There's also so many different companies you can keep on changing companies. Yeah. And changing your environment until you feel more like yourself and more safe, that you could actually represent yourself and present yourself authentically. So I think that's always an advice as well, and ties in to keep moving until you find something.

Emily 41:44

Don't be scared to, to jump around if you're not happy and maybe try something out. And in engineering is very common, I think more common and then than in other fields to just keep changing jobs, like changing job titles every few years.

Alexis 41:59

Do you have any, Emily, any like resources or places that you go personally to find more information?

Emily 42:04

A lot of universities have their career resources. That's how I found a lot of my, maybe all of my internships through that. That's just a good way to ask professors. Cause a lot of times they worked in the field prior to being a professor. So they can give you just good hands-on advice. Talk to older students, that, see, you, see where they ended up. Also, it's really good using LinkedIn just to kind of network with people and stock people. See what type of jobs they've had and their experience and just ask them about it. That's how I got into my job at my new company. I had a friend from school that I reached out to, and then everyone's always happy to help, and happy to give you their experience or to share what they like and don't like.

Alexis 42:48

Those are fantastic.

Emily 42:49

I think now we, networking is so much easier nowadays with all these apps and social media platforms, so it's great like for younger kids to younger young adults to take advantage of it.

Alexis 43:01

It's just become, so much more access accessible and information is so e much easier to get and there's a breadth of information that's now available. Fantastic advice. Lovely chatting with you and I really appreciate you coming on and talking about everything. I really appreciate all your content. I think what you're doing is incredible and very impactful for the younger generation. So just thank you for doing what you do.

Emily 43:22

Thanks so much. That means so much to me. This was really cool and I love to be on and to hear more of your podcasts coming up. Oh,

Alexis 43:29

well thank you. This has been the Smoko podcast. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you for listening, guys, and we will see you next week thank you again.