Alexis 0:00

Hello everybody and welcome to the Smoko Podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your host. Nice to meet you. The Smoko Podcast is a place to celebrate and highlight women, trans women, and non-binary folk working within STEM and trade occupations. So please tune in, take a break. We are on Smoko and today we are extremely lucky to be joined by the lovely Erin Winnick Anthony, who is a science communicator extraordinaire. She's worked with some amazing projects, which we're gonna talk about today. Nasa, M I T C B SS Mission Unstoppable, SolidWorks, the Economist. Her background is in mechanical engineering And since then she's created her own company. So we're gonna talk a little bit about science communication, that interconnection between art and science, and then we're also gonna talk about her upcoming expedition with, the institution of my heart, I O D P and the Jodies resolution. So I can't wait to hear about that upcoming expedition. So Erin, it is so lovely to see you. Thank you so much for coming onto the show.

Erin 0:59

No, I'm so excited to talk about all of that. Those are all my favorite things, so thank you for having

Alexis 1:03

me. You're welcome. It's an honor. And maybe because you have done so much, if we could go back to the very beginning. I was wondering if we could touch on your background in mechanical engineering, and what about this field really got you hooked, that you were like, yep, I'm gonna become a mechanical engineer. How did you choose that specialty?

Erin 1:24

I am at my core, a maker is how I define myself. But as a kid, that was both, making Lego structures and Hot Wheels tracks, as well as sewing Halloween costumes and writing and drawing, just like making all of the things. So I really wanted to be able to find a degree and a career where I could continue to do that. And for mechanical engineering, I was excited to be able to learn new tools to be able to do that. And the thing that really hooked me was design a manufacturing lab that I took in college where I got to learn to use a mill and a lathe and weld and create the stuff physically that I was designing on the computer. So that was the thing that hooked me getting into mechanical engineering and kind of just being in that creative engineering space.

Alexis 2:07

I could imagine. Any kid who self-identifies as a maker all of a sudden that they have all of these tools and like these fancy equipment that would be like a mecca. Like you'd basically be coming home to be like, this is the best thing that's ever happened. Oh

Erin 2:20

yeah. It was super cool. Best, best course for sure. And I think it's the course that hooks a lot of people in mechanical engineering. I went into college as quote exploratory engineering because I think a lot of people don't really know what engineering is like from the outside. You have an idea of it, but what do you actually study and how do you apply that? And I didn't have fully have a great understanding, so I was looking at industrial engineering. I was looking at mechanical a little bit at civil and environmental. That was the course, combined with some of the computer aid design classes that kind of went, okay, this is the branch of engineering I'm most interested in.

Alexis 2:53

I could see coming in a little bit blindsided because you have no idea what engineering is really like you, you have to be good at science, you have to be good at math, but you don't really understand what's the actual, like practice of putting it into like everyday society. Have you. Always been a maker. Like where did that come from, you think? Is it just something that like you grew up with? Is it something that your parents really harnessed? Where did that come from?

Erin 3:15

Yeah, I am a part of a family of teachers and engineers. Okay. And I feel like I became the mesh of those two things. So my mom was always super like craftsy and things like that we're always, saving all of the paper towel rolls in the kitchen and making marble runs and things like that All of the fun little accessible stuff. And like I said, she's the one who got me into sewing and all of that. Combined with, a lot of my family, the re I grew up down in Florida because a lot of them are connected with the space program. So I had this cool mix of that like hardcore engineer, the teachers who were doing like, fun accessible stuff in the classroom. I had my mom who was just really into that hands-on craft thing. So I think it all just came from that and being around all those different people.

Alexis 3:57

Like that clicks I think.'cause like on paper you're like, where is this girl getting all this energy? And like how is she interested in all of these wonderful things? But like I feel like that is instantly like the perfect click.'cause you can see it that you're so artsy And then this hardcore, especially space focus, like that's very cool that comes from both sides of your family. Yeah, totally. Is that kind of how you fell in love with science communication? Because like you've worked in this for eight years and you've done everything with it and you've also created your own company, which deserves So many flowers for doing that, for creating steam power media. Thanks. Is that kind of where that interest in science communication come from? Did it come from your

Erin 4:37

mom? I think one of the things I've learned about science communicators is the majority of people who work in this career, like a lot of stuff, and they like to continue learning about a lot of things. Yeah. So people will be both comic book artists and event managers and social media people and writing, and it's like this field attracts people that want to keep learning and using so many different skills.'cause making is a lot of stuff. It is that hands-on, but it's also that writing and crafting and storytelling can be making too. I didn't ever really know this was a career. I think people think science communication, you think, oh, bill Nye, there's like just a few when they're on TV on P B s. Yeah. Yeah. And they're hosts, that sort of thing. Yeah. A Neil deGrasse Tyson or an Emily Kellen Dre, something like that. But science communication's, a lot of opportunities out there ranging from working at local museums to hospitals and universities and large institutions like nasa. Or there's a number of, YouTubers and freelance science communicators out there and people who do stuff like me. And the more I've been in this world, the more I've seen opportunities in that. And, but all of them seem to share that thread of just like continued lifelong learning and a passion for that.

Alexis 5:47

Yeah. No, that's so beautiful. I do think that at its core science communication is just about being so interested in everything and every aspect of science. But I also think that you brought up such a good point of this narrow view of what we think science communication is, and I think Most public does just think of bill Nye, the science guy, and that TV being rolled into class and that's, yeah. That's it. What, for you, what was your first kind of gig or your first job in science communication? Because as you said, you didn't expect it to be a career or didn't really think it was gonna be the next step. Like how did that kind of stumble? What was the first stumble block into science communication?

Erin 6:25

So when I was getting my engineering degree, I had, four engineering internships and I went that whole path.'cause I feel like when you get in the world of college, everyone around you is doing that and you also wanna try it out and see what it's like. But I was also always the weird engineer that liked to write, which I wish it wasn't weird, but I was always the one people wanted to do their lab reports and all of that sort of stuff. So I was actually doing some freelance writing stuff on the side while I was in college, as like a part-time thing. I was doing some writing for a, kids engineering startup that was like trying to create some educational materials. I started doing some writing for a kids science magazine called, beans. It was called Kids Code and CSS back then and engineering.com. So like I had these kind of like niche areas where my overlap of interest was like A really big positive and then, The big kind of jumping point was I started a different company back when I was in college called, which made three D printed science and engineering inspired jewelry. And when I started doing this, I was pairing it with educational materials and I started becoming a little bit more of a public face talking about science and engineering, because up until then I wasn't really doing much on social media. It was just writing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was doing the writing in the background and even then not for a New York Times or anything like that. So doing that exposed me to, I this whole community and women in STEM on Instagram community. And many people that I met that are still my friends and like these other ways to communicate science, like through fashion and through three d printing and stuff. So that was my real transition into this world and going, okay, there's some more here that I should really explore.

Alexis 8:02

Love that you had a little bit of like niche crossovers And it just like built and built on each other. And I love that you also gained that community and kind of more doors opened up for you. Like I like that it was a really organic process and organic falling into science communication because you've worked on. So many different projects you've worked with M I T, nasa, the International Space Station, like Mission Unstoppable. Is there a project when you think of all your work that really sticks out for you that like maybe it was your favorite, it was a dream realized and then could you maybe talk to that experience and your role within that project?

Erin 8:39

Yeah, I think my biggest project that I took on, the one I feel that I most impact is, so I work for the International Space Station Program Research Office. So we are this niche little group that handled communicating all the sciences conducted on the International Space Station because. There's been over 3000 experiments. It's so cool. Yeah. Been a big connective there. it's so much amazing. So much, speaking of trying to bounce between science topics. One day it's stem cell research, the next day it's robotics. So I think the coolest thing I got to do was work on something that was called their Benefits for Humanity book. This for was made every like three to four years in trying to show the impact of all the research that we've done up there back here on earth. Wow. And it had been like, doubling in size every year and it was very cool. It was more of a quantity over quality thing. It was just like a look at this and set the book down type impact rather than, oh, I can really relate to this. I took on and helped, revamp it, made it more of a magazine style versus a textbook kind of style. Cut the length in half. We rewrote the whole thing, did a ton of digital content for it so that it could be distributed, not just in that Print form. And it was like a two year project. They got to work with a bunch of interns who also helped on it. People from all the international collaborations, all the international partnerships because, so Cool. International Space Station. Yes. Just that international. And so we were working with people from, Jackson, the Japanese Space Agency, agency, the C S A in Canada, European Space Agency, like all across the world. So it was very cool to be able to. lead this collaboration and see this final product, which came out at a pivotal time around, trying to petition for the extension of the space station to 2030. So it was able to be a resource for especially all the international partners trying to convince their individual governments to be able to see Hey, what we do up there matters.

Alexis 10:23

Support this. Yes, exactly. I couldn't imagine how big of a job that was.

Erin 10:27

It was a really cool project though.'cause I feel like I have such a better understanding of all of this now and the impact of all of that research. And I'm like, now I just want the whole world to be able to have the same understanding I have from two years of working on this project.

Alexis 10:38

That's so freaking cool. And of that, if I can ask a follow up, what was your favorite bit of research that came out of that project that you were like, I had no idea that this came from the International Space Station and that this was the impact.

Erin 10:51

Yeah. Well, it's hard for me to pick one after doing all of that, but I'll give you two that are very different. So I've, one of the things people always want is what's the thing in my house that's here because of the space station? One of the things that's, I think one of the most difficult concepts that we have to describe, that's studied up there is colloids. So colloids are, Particles suspended in a liquid. So this is a shampoo, a toothpaste, milk, mud. Those are all colloids. Anything. Yeah. Yeah. Anything in a liquid. Yeah. Stuff that's suspended like that. But it's really important to understand these for shelf lifes.'cause colloids will settle over time. So we had organizations like Proctor and Gamble, p and g, that doing colloids research on the space station to improve their everyday household products. One of the new Febreze Unstoppables products used colloids research that was conducted on the space station. Oh my goodness. Which super cool. Yeah. And they have a number of patents that they filed. So there should be longer term impacts'cause science takes a while. But that's a cool one that they actually directly applied. And then the other is, There was a telescope up there called nicer that studies neutron stars. And part of this that the, for creating this technology, they had to create a new x-ray technology that can turn on and off really quickly. Cool. Love it. That was really, really small. Yeah. Yeah. And so they have had potential applications for CT scanners, which are usually huge machines that have like large spinning parts. This potentially they've been testing it out, and I think it's Harvard and up in Boston of creating more portable, lighter weight CT scanners that don't have those moving parts. So they could be used in more remote areas, have a lower radiation dosage for CT scanners, and potentially even be used on space travel because it's hard to bring a large rotating thing like on, a spacecraft. Yeah. But these smaller, transportable ones, Could potentially be used for medical care in space, so Oh my

Alexis 12:38

goodness, that's insane. Super cool. Yeah, it's super cool. Both of those discoveries, are they both rooted in how to make life easier in space? So how to keep your astronauts like healthy and shelf life and like for their food products. Is that kind of the base one for the first research and the second is just to make it more accessible? Is that all about kind of efficiency? Yeah.

Erin 13:00

Well interestingly, the x-ray one, was not, was developed purely for this telescope and then this other scientist went, Hey, I think I can use that for my research. So it wasn't even the purpose behind it. It wasn't okay. It, the purpose was to create a cool, this telescope that can study neutron stars and there was just a secondary benefit. Okay. That there was a collaboration that the NASA scientists were like, yeah, we'll work with you on that. And then the Proctor and Gamble one was they were investing in this research for their earth-based products. Oh, okay. Which is pretty cool. Oh, that'ss different. Were like, because they can study these particles and how they're suspended in liquids without the forces of gravity.'cause sometimes gravity can obscure the other forces and behaviors of these things. So it's really hard to study here. We also do kill a lot of combustion research up there for that reason, because, flames are really affected by gravity. So there's a lot of little teeny flames that are ignited up there too. Oh, that's

Alexis 13:49

really cool. It's cool to think of like the theoretical. Part of experiments being studied up in space.'cause you always think of it as a one-way system of yeah, these experiments up in the International Space Station and then they become something different down here. They get morphed to a different application or a different use case. But it's really cool that Procter and Gamble actually was like, no, hey, we have some research and we would like you to test it out for us. That's very interesting.

Erin 14:15

That's different. Yeah. I, that's what NASA and a lot of companies that are now like investing in making low earth orbit space stations are hoping for. Because they really want customers and clients like Procter and Gamble to be like, yeah, I wanna invest in sending this up there and it now has a direct return for me back here on the earth. They also are looking into, organ printing up there, which that's in very early stages, but they're doing a lot of bioprinting because it's hard to maintain the scaffolding of organs under gravity here on earth when you're like trying to create them. Red Wire is one of the companies that owns the bio fabrication facility, ak, the B F F, uh, up there. And they've been doing, knee meniscus printing and some, heart cells. Wow. So very early. But the hope is, There's an opportunity to have this low earth orbit economy up there That can support back here on earth and help us figure out how to explore further into

Alexis 15:06

space. No, it's a very cool, new way of thinking about space because we've used space as really exploratory and we don't really view it as like a research resource or like a place to actually establish scientific experiments. So that's a very different way of thinking about space in these low orbit, space stations. That research is fantastic. I was wondering if we could maybe go back a little bit to science communication and I was wondering if we could dive into, The idea of what makes a good science communicator. And bridging that gap. So I was wondering if you could maybe speak to what makes a good science communicator and then what a scientist that we need to work on.

Erin 15:49

Yeah. I think it's a mix because there's partially people who, I think scientists, improving your science communication is important and great, but it's also important to bring in people who, this is what they do all of the time. To help with these, like larger projects and things like that. Because oftentimes scientists get burdened with a lot of extra tasks that, they aren't necessarily supported and paid for. And so I think, trying to put that burden of thought fully, like all the science communication that needs to happen on them can be really challenging. I think one of the things though is, like I said, we've talked about earlier about just having a wide variety of skill sets and interests. Because honestly, so much communication happens in many different places now. It's social media, it's writing, it's video, it's in-person communication. You don't have to like all of them. But I think that, finding your niche ones that you really enjoy and love and feel comfortable explaining these things in, And then finding the way to be a storyteller. Find the impacts that people can relate to, the human stories that can help tell them, trying to bring in that relatability aspect is really important. And for some projects that's a lot harder than others. Some projects, they go up to the space station, just look like a silver box and they might have a really important impact and might, but also might be really fundamental research that's early on. And it's hard to say 150 years from now, this could help with cancer research, that sort of thing. Yeah. But figuring out those accessibility points. And sometimes it might be the researcher themselves and like why they were passionate about pursuing this type of research. And if it's you who are trying to communicate your own science, why are you passionate about this? There's a reason you're dedicating your life to this thing. Don't be afraid to let that passion come across.'cause I think sometimes there's that need for that academic type of presentation. Yeah. And for the public. Be enthusiastic, don't be afraid to just let that excitement show,'cause that makes other people feel free to get excited

Alexis 17:42

too. I love that answer. I agree. Like I think there is that knee jerk of being like, so academic and so focused on textbook to be like, this is the reason why you have to be interested in it. And almost like a removal of self or a removal of passion. Yeah. And it's more, cut and paste or more dry sometimes and presentation. So I think that's such good advice of being like, put that personal aspect to it and just speak more authentically or speak why you're so excited about it. But

Erin 18:09

yeah, and I'll also add too, if you're a scientist, don't be afraid to seek out science communication or communication training. As an engineer didn't have a lot of communications training. I just came into it with a passion for writing, have doing some like journalism in high school on newspaper. And then I did a lot of practice to get better at this. Don't feel like you need to be perfect at it off the bat. there's some great places like the Allen Alda Institute, which yes, it's the comedian. He actually founded an incredible science communication institute and they have, courses and they will bring out trainers. So if like your college maybe wants to do host, a an in-person workshop, they're fantastic. I love, Soph talk Science on, Instagram. She's super cool. And she has a podcast too. Yeah. That talks about science communication. I think ology also has some good training and stuff, so. Don't be afraid, go out and like, look at these resources because they can really be helpful too.

Alexis 18:59

I love that advice of trying to get better in practicing. I was wondering if we could talk maybe about the flip side of it because science communication is a two-way street, right? There's Sure. The scientist side. And then on the other flip side of it, you have the public. I was wondering if you could speak to public education in terms of science and in terms of understanding science. And if you believe there are any misconceptions or bias or any like big learning that you think the public needs to better understand in terms of science.

Erin 19:27

I feel like every scientist in their area of science will have an answer, for their like thing. And you talk to them, they're like, guys need to understand this. Yeah. Yeah. And so usually my advice, when we would go out for the Space station, outreach event, for example. First of all, we want you to know that the Space Station exists. And I know that starts seeming like, oh, well I wanna assume people know that already. Yeah. But like, you know, try always be listening and trying to feel where those people are coming from to make sure that they're with you.'cause you wanna know that it's a, they're, that it exists. Then we wanted people to know that it was an orbiting laboratory and science happened here. And then we could talk about how this science benefits you and what happens there. But we don't wanna start there.'cause people might be, A lot of people thought when I said Space station, I meant like Kennedy Space Center or Johnson Space Center. Oh, on Earth. NASA Centers on Earth. Trying to make sure everyone's on board with you before you really start into step three for them where they needed to come back to step one, and finding ways for those. Elementary things not to seem like something obvious they should have known.'cause then there's like an immediate like kneejerk Oh yeah, yeah. Knee jerk. Like pushback from it. for example, one of the things we would like to tell people is that they can go outside and see the space station with their own two eyes. There's a service called Spot the Station that you can sign up for alerts on your phone. I love that. That's very cool. And it'll say, yeah, at, 5:30 AM at this degree in the sky. You can go outside and see it and it's the third brightest object in the sky so you can watch it go over. Oh, cool. And that gives people a cool way to go. Oh, this is real. There's like an accessibility point here. So finding those pieces that also can create that connection, which obviously most people you can't see necessarily your lab, but maybe there's, you can go out and see a certain plant or a certain type of rock in your community and things that can create that connection point too. So that's usually my. My advice because it's hard.'cause every area of science is so different. We've had everything from climate change to covid, which have been more public science issues, and each of those need their own type of communication plan. And thinking through that process

Alexis 21:34

too, that team behind them of trying to explain the problem and explain it. Yeah. And kinda like layman's terms. But I like that advice of breaking it down. And maybe that step one for you is probably step five for them, right? We just got there a little bit earlier because that was our education. So just bringing people back to that root cause or the root idea of the science and any advice that you have, if there's like pushback or if someone maybe doesn't believe you or needs, more proof if they're a little bit skeptical.

Erin 22:06

I think there's certain categories of pushback. For example, for running a social media account for NASA for a while, you'll see the people that don't think the moon is real, don't think the space station is real. Yeah. All of that sort of stuff. And if they're commenting all of that, probably the right place to explain it isn't in a tweet back to them explaining why they're wrong. Most of it just comes back to trying to be as human as possible. And I think the most, the best place to do that is when you're talking in person. Because try to think about where the root of their pushback is coming from. And usually there's, again, steps to think through is it something that's related to their, political ideology or something related to their cultural background. Is it something that's like a very common misconception and you can relate and be like, oh, here's how that misconception ended up coming to be. I thought that

Alexis 22:57

as well, or, yes. Yeah.

Erin 22:59

Yeah. And so understandable. Exactly. And then trying to think about putting it in a context that would be more accessible to someone from that background and trying to pivot your messaging a little bit. Sometimes coming out with a list of facts isn't the right way to do that. Sometimes it can be, oh, actually that's the fact that's spread around, but this is the fact that's more relevant and actually true in this case. Sometimes it's, oh, let's reframe this conversation a little bit in a context that's maybe more accessible to someone from your background.

Alexis 23:32

It's basically taking an individualistic approach to push back. Yeah. And designing a response that's most suitable for what type of pushback and what type of person, and maybe where the miscommunication or misunderstanding is coming from. Which, again, it's breaking it down into steps, which I think is very practical.

Erin 23:50

Totally. And I think that, you know, that indivi individualistic approach can be applied to groups. It's not necessarily just one individual, but people from different backgrounds. So think about your audience whenever you are communicating. If it's on TikTok, sometimes your video might get pushed out to a certain group that you know, isn't the one you initially intended to communicate to. You can make another video that's trying to address that. Yeah. Or again, sometimes social media isn't the right way to address pushback and things like that. Figuring out where to spend your time and also not burn yourself out. Because sometimes being the science communicator that, tries to do rebuttals videos like that can be exhausting. Sometimes they can be positive, sometimes they can just sometimes negative.

Alexis 24:32

Negative. I think that like you might not get them on their team, right? I think it's also kinda like putting that idea of being like, I'm gonna win them over as long as I keep working. And you're like, that might not, it's a process happen, it's a process. It it, it might be a process or it might take some years or just a significant amount of time for that person or that group of people to get on board or maybe catch up to understanding a very complex issue.'cause science is a complex issue at its core. And I think that there has been a disconnect in how we've communicated science and the fact that we all have one in our childhood have been like, bill N that's the guy, but sure he came in the nineties, you know what I mean? And yes, there are others wonderful science communicators in this place, but I think on the public sphere, I think that they only really have one. And so there has been a disconnect and I think there's been a lag in explaining science to the general public for a long time. So there's gonna be a little catch up. It's gonna take us a little bit of time.

Erin 25:26

I will add one, I asked Beta a video on TikTok.'cause I was like, bill Nye's from the nineties, new Generation. What is your Bill Nye? And the answer, by far, Hank Green is the new substitute. I love for that. There are a, yeah, there are a bunch more out there too. But that was the, if you had to pick one There was a lot of people who said the Amoeba sisters, which I had never even heard of until people were telling me about this. They had millions of subscribers on YouTube and I was like, wow. I felt like someone in this, I should have known about it. But they were super cool. And then obviously there's the, the physics girls The veritasium, like the YouTube group too, that I almost feel like it's bunched together as like the science communicators of YouTube. But it is. Interesting. I think when you still think general public They still say like a Bill Nye, but if you go like one level deeper to like science interested public, there's a ton. So many of incredible options now. Ranging from makers to those, like those science explainer type stuff.

Alexis 26:21

Maybe this is the, like that answer for the next one is, my next question to you was, what excites you in this space? And maybe it's the, like the vast amount of new science communicators in that kind of next generation. But this question could be applicable to either side communication or a subfield of science. It could be anything. And then whatever you've chosen, what would be your future aspirations for this specialty?

Erin 26:44

Talking about what we were talking about a second ago, as far as like the diversity of like opportunity and things like that in science communication, I do love to see the amount of different people that are able to rise up through that system. My hope is that more women can be put in places of prominence in science and communication. I think people like Emily Kelli are paving the way for Stuff like that. And Kelly Girardi who's gonna be flying on one of the Virgin Galactic missions Yes. But they still struggle to get the prime time hosting gigs, the shows that are hosting on the big networks and things like that. That in top of having more people of color and things in those hosting positions. So trying to figure out how to rise one level up from where, you know, everyone's. Been very comfortable with yeah, succeed on YouTube, but then if you try to make that next step in some of those other areas, there's still pushback. So that's my hope of where we can be able to really expand. And I think there's progress being made there. But it's taking a surprising amount of time, especially with the amount of progress they're fed in initiatives for trying to get more women in stem. Yeah. I think Emily has talked about the one show that she's really been able to do was very targeted at young children, and there was a much more of like a, okay, yeah, we can have a woman do the show that's targeted at young kids. But not necessarily targeted at, 20 to 30 year old science interested people, that sort of thing. So we'll see how that evolves. I'm curious to see where that, now obviously TV isn't the only medium. There's so many ways to access audiences now and. Seeing how that those tools evolve along with that diversity.

Alexis 28:15

That's beautiful and I think that's, a great answer. It's, it does make me a little bit sad that it is still stalling almost, or we're still at this plateau and you can see that it's moving, that there's this push in theory to increase the amount of women in STEM and women of color in STEM and put them at prominent positions of hosting or having their own shows. But it does seem a little bit Stalled. I think it's interesting that you brought it to children or you talked about this idea of she would be a wonderful host for kids, but she wouldn't be a wonderful host for, young adults or young people that are interested in science. I think that sometimes in science communication, the way that it's marketed, it's almost marketed as, a child show and it's marketed Of being like, let's be excited about science. And it's like this like, kind of like hokey energy that sometimes comes with this, like stereotypical marketing and you're like,. No man, we're just cool and we're just interested in science. it's this thing that affects everybody. It's bigger than any of us and it affects all of our lives. So I feel like it, it deserves the. Authenticity and the seriousness of the topic, and sometimes you don't see that.

Erin 29:22

Yeah, I think that one of the places I've really enjoyed seeing, like the next group of communicators come up is TikTok. There's a lot of incredible women and people of color that are doing fantastic science communication on there. A huge fan of, Alex Danish. She has a PhD in genetics and does some really cool stuff. There's, Astra, Alexandra. Yeah. Like a ton of people that are doing, some really cool things. Groovy geologists. Oh, she's sick and I, yeah, she's fantastic. Yeah. So I think that's, again, helping move the needle and just showing the types of communication that you can do. It's a lot easier to be experimental when there's nothing on the line except having a TikTok only get 300 views or something like that. And I've loved being able to see cool series and types of science communication evolve out of that. That can turn into other things too. As we were talking about that, the ability to be more experimental and democratize. People go, I wanna do this.

Alexis 30:18

I think that overall I think it's better to take that chance and better to have this kind of new experimental space and also giving power to viewers more, or giving more control to viewers. Say, you're also a viewer, you're a listener back home, and you're really interested in science communication and you wanna support this kind of next generation. How would you do so, what would be your advice? Would it just be interacting with their content? How can we help you think?

Erin 30:43

Interacting is always a good, and not just liking, but commenting, asking questions back. Things that could prompt us to make another video to help explain something cool.'cause you asked a follow up that we didn't have a chance to explain in those 60 seconds. Sharing is also fantastic spreading it with your group, even if it's just sending it to your parents.'cause you think, oh, they would like this cool video about birds that you made, that sort of thing. And then when they do have opportunities to monetarily support, whether it's a book that someone published, someone puts out a merch launch, all of that stuff. Yeah. It's not just for the sake of, trying to get that out there, but it allows that science communication to be supported. Having people that just co continually comment and stuff is just so encouraging. And feel free if you see someone at a conference or something, come up and say hi. We get that every once in a while, but not very often. And it's very cool to see people who are like, yeah, in person. Pumped about that. Engaged. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I, I love

Alexis 31:35

that. I think that's also like back in the heyday and my dad would always talk about the sixties, how like scientists were rock stars and how that's dropped as society has changed a little bit and behavior has changed. So I feel like if we could bring that back and bring back that communication and that interest, I think that would be really beautiful. And

Erin 31:52

last thing I'll add too is if you have an opportunity to bring them to your local museum or involve like if you see a, like a good overlap or connection that's super cool and awesome to make and bring that communication to your local community as well, whatever possible. Ah, that's

Alexis 32:07

a gorgeous ad. I love that. Speaking of science communication and just, you've done your career of eight years and now you're also with your company Steam Power Media. What is the coolest fact and then what is the weirdest thing? The coolest, most bizarre, mind boggling one, and then the weirdest one that you were like, how, how am I getting paid? What has happened to my life that I have now here? What's

Erin 32:31

happened? Part of this is always I'm in so many different worlds all the time, so this is what pops into my head right now. Okay. But coolest is the fact that astronauts have taken more than 4 million pictures of Earth that like by hand. Whoa. siNce we've, they've launched up there, they've been taking them back since, the Apollo days. And because when they're up there, that's the coolest thing out your window, when you're looking and from the space station. And those pictures help serve as a very cool record of earth over time. Obviously now we have a lot more satellite constellations and stuff, but those hand taken photos can be at beautiful tangles. They can be requested when required. They're used for emergency response, like disaster response and things like that. So, Love that. Super cool. And then like weirdest like thing slash fact was I got to sign a piece of the space station that was launching up to space. Cool. It's used for deploying trash. So I have my name on, it's used for other stuff too, but primarily it's the, NERAX Bishop Airlock. Okay. They were launching this commercial, the first commercial airlock to the space station. It's also used for satellite deploys and some like experiments, but, It also just has big bags of trash that get sent up to burn up in the atmosphere. So my name is signed on that'cause we were there doing some communication stuff and taking video for it. So I think that has to be the weirdest, gotta be

Alexis 33:52

like, that's why I claim to fame, to be like I am on the garbage disposal. Like my name Yes. Is Sign Sealed, delivered and Winnick Anthony on that

Erin 34:00

garbage shoot in Sharpie. Yeah. Signed So,

Alexis 34:04

Oh my goodness. That is so funny. Yeah, that's definitely something to be like, I did not expect my life to take this turn to be like, no. But kind of cool. Like I hope you have photos of it to be like Yeah, I'm on the

34:16

trash

Erin 34:16

sheet. I have photos of signing it. Yeah, I don't have a picture of it in space'cause I don't really know, I don't think that's, I dunno if that's possible A prime spot possible you had to take pictures of. Yeah. But yeah, I know I signed it and then it got shipped off a few weeks

Alexis 34:27

later. Oh, very cool. And that's wonderful. That's a really cool fact about, um, taking selfies with Earth and 4 million of them. Was that how many Yeah,

Erin 34:36

I know. Yeah, it's a lot. Millions. If you go to, I think it's called the Gateway of Astronaut Photography of Earth. Johnson Space Center curates them and they have been using AI to try to help categorize them more and show you what part of the earth they're over and stuff. But you can probably find a picture that an astronaut has taken of where you live. Oh, that's

Alexis 34:53

gorgeous. That's such a, like a personal aspect or like you could be like, oh yeah, like famous astronaut. He took a photo of my address or he looked at like little Vancouver and took a photo of us when it was like rainy day in 19 six. Like 90, 96.

Erin 35:08

Totally. I have to say I love, some of the astronauts also take on personal earth photography projects and Christina Cook was taking pictures. She's a big surfer. Yeah. Of beaches. Oh cool. So she goes and surf is now surfing at the places that she took pictures of when she was up there and she's posting like the picture juxtapose with her surfing there. Megan MacArthur took pictures of national parks. Oh cool. So she got to share all facts about the national parks and her joy of hiking with that.

Alexis 35:31

I love both of those facts. I love the weird one. I love the cool one. Incredible. Absolutely incredible. I wanted, to switch gears a little bit and talk about something different, which is your interconnection of art and science because I love that you've had this kind of story and this has been a theme of your life of being a maker and being interested in both. And I was wondering if you could speak to that interconnection, because I think most scientists are artists as well, or it's very common. Yeah. Do you believe that art is similar opposites to science and what draws you to create art, which represents science because a lot of your jewelry and clothes has had a science aspect to it? Yeah, I

Erin 36:11

think the big thing is both really require a lot of creativity. IF you're a kid who's like super interested in art, but maybe not super interested in math, you're not gonna be driven towards pursuing science as a career. But even if you're not doing science, scientific illustration is a huge thing. There's science communicators and videographers and like all of this intersection of where art can contribute to science. And I think it's really important to show the intersection of creativity and how important it is for being able to come up with new ideas, design new tools. A lot of like engineering design has an artistic element to it, you know? There's a lot of opportunity to flex those artistic muscles, whether it's in a computer aid design software or creating, the new mission patch for a new mission to go to the International Space Station. Which is a legitimate job. Yes. There are graphic designers who create all of those things. So that's part of why I've really enjoyed that passion and that intersection of those two things. For me, creating especially wearable art That features science stuff Sure. Serves as a conversation starter. So it's another great way, or someone might normally not be willing to ask a question about, earth photo al algae blooms that have been photographed for your earth photography. Yeah. Putting that on a skirt, someone goes, oh, that's really cool. What is that? It's a gateway to having those conversations and, making it more accessible and not, as, hard to have that first question be asked.

Alexis 37:41

In theory of seeing it in a fun, new, accessible way and being able probably to show your, showcase your identity too, because I feel like Fashion is how you showcase what you love and if you love science, it's a another great way to showcase that and showcase your interest.

Erin 37:57

Yeah, and it's fun to have it there. I love science t-shirts and stuff too, which I have a massive stack of, but it's also cool to have the, it's skew in a little bit more of an artistic or fashion direction too.

Alexis 38:08

You're gonna love the JR because that's a huge day is when we do our t-shirt day. Everyone gets a science expedition t-shirt and you'll see the expedition logos. There's a full logo competition that everyone can draw. Their favorite logo, you can get chosen and then everyone has their matching like press T-shirt and it's always, I love collecting all my expedition t-shirts. I have all of them still. Like I love looking at the old ones. I think they're just so interesting. Like I've always loved that connection as well. And I do love your call out of being how artistic science is because I do think that a stereotype is that it's very binary, it's very rigid and I think that I'm a good geologist because I came from an art background when you think of something that doesn't exist now on our world and you have to try to imagine something like 460 million years ago. Yeah. I feel like you need to have that creative like imagination to be like, okay, like what does it look like? Where are we? Yes. What is the temperature? That art artist brain, I think. I think that really does help science. A

Erin 39:12

hundred percent. I agree.

Alexis 39:14

Is there something that you're making right now that you're really excited about? Is there a new project that kind of brings those two things?

Erin 39:20

I was doing a project with, lbo, um, which is a, uh, three D printing company, and they, um, we're doing a project with flexible filaments. Ooh. So I made a bunch of, um, D 20 dice, like they're used for, um, gorgeous. Uh, the dungeon, the dragons. Yeah. And they like bounce and squish and stuff. So rather than printing like hard plastic, that's

Alexis 39:42

fantastic. I love's that. It's,

Erin 39:44

that's fun. It's just fun. Yeah. That's a fun thing. Yeah. And so I can use it to talk about, yeah, you can print stuff that's other than plastic on a printer. A fun way to do it. So I wanna try to make a video about it and showing them, like bouncing around and stuff like that. So that's the one that's within Arm's Reach currently

Alexis 40:01

And the last kind of question, I know one thing that's upcoming is your expedition on the JR. And going out to sea with I R D P working as in-house communicator. I was wondering if someone doesn't really know, that role, could you explain kind of role and responsibilities and then from that, what are you the most excited about for this experience and this expedition? Yeah,

Erin 40:24

so yeah, the JR is the DY resolution, which is this. Big ship. It's about, I think it's 471 feet long. Yeah. And it's a scientific drilling vessel, so it goes out into the ocean, wherever that needs to be studied and takes cores of the ocean floor to study geology, looking back in time and studying different areas of the world. So it's been all over the place. I'm gonna be in the Mediterranean for our expedition, which I feel very lucky about. Yes. That's gorgeous. We're gonna be there from December to February. So we are gonna be there over the holidays and celebrating all the holidays with a big international crew. And we're gonna be studying. The history of the Mediterranean, which is very unique and interesting in the fact that it actually has changed shape a lot over time and didn't always look like what it does now. So specifically we're looking at the salinity crisis in its history where a lot of the water dried up and it was a very, very dense, basically piece of salt and the water paths were very different. Yeah. The thing that's really unique about this specific expedition, it's actually the first ever land to sea drilling project. So it is gonna have some onshore drilling aspects that are gonna be drilling where the Mediterranean used to be. Oh. So looking back at the history in those areas as well,'cause those areas are very important even though it's not where the Mediterranean is today. So I'm only right now involved in this first kind of the C part of it, but it will kick off what they're anticipating to be about a 10 year science project. As far as most excited about, so one of the main reasons that I wanted to pursue this was space is super cool and I love communicating about it, but you don't usually get to go and see where the science is actually happening. People ask me if I'd go to space, yes. But I really just wanna go to the International Space Station. Yeah. Because that's why I've spent so much of my life, now looking at and studying. I'm so excited to actually be there with the scientists on the ship where the science is happening and be able to see it in person and be able to help share it. Because my role as like onboard communications officer is to be the communicator for the sciences happening as it's happening. So I'll be doing ship to shore calls with museums and classrooms. I'm super excited to be able to call and talk with all these kids about all of that. And then I'll be doing a social media and then also a personal project that we get to work on. So I'm gonna be doing a short form video series while I'm out there trying to make as many as I can. Yeah. To be able to tell the stories of the science and the ship, because I will say, sadly, the Joinee is going to be retired in a few exhibitions. I'm gonna be on the third to last one. So there's gonna be a little bit of that preservation aspect and trying to document things that maybe haven't been documented before. I

Alexis 43:02

absolutely love that, and I hope that we can get the most attention to the JR in this last year so that it is not the final year, because I hope to goodness that it can eventually be extended. It's such a fundamental and foundation program that's been going on since the sixties. And I think, yeah, I think the International Space Station gets the flowers that it deserves and it has the importance and that practicality that everyone can associate to be like, this is important. We need to continue this. But I think sometimes that gets lost on the JR. And the JR does just as much. Cutting edge and foundational. Sure. Science in terms of climate change and structure and natural hazards. Yes. And geo hazards. And it needs to continue. So I love this idea and I love this mission of trying to get realtime short form video of the ship and its message and its mission. And what makes the ship so unique? Because it is the only ship currently that can do what it does because it is the deepest drill ship in the world. I think we drilled two K down and we usually sit in 3000 meters water depth, which is very, very hard to do. And most ships are gravity based systems. And what makes us a little bit different is our drilling, system and apparatus. So I love that would be a special project of yours is having, that communication and that capture of how special the JR and I O D P is.

Erin 44:31

Really looking forward to trying to find ways to give this content as much reach as possible. To share all these really cool stories and important

Alexis 44:38

work. Yeah. I can't wait to hear your experience of the JR. I love that call out of going to where the science is actually happening and being able to have that experience. Are you nervous for that? Do you think that there's gonna be big surprises? How are you prepping for that experience of being part of the

Erin 44:55

science? Yeah. The coolest thing is I, so I've had a whirlwind past six weeks. I've been traveling a bunch. So I actually went to Bristol UK for a meeting with the science team. I just got to meet all of the scientists or most of the scientists I wanna be on board with. But I was nervous until I met all of these incredible people and. I saw a lot of them were very interested in the outreach aspect as well. A number of them had ideas and like schools in their community that they wanted to be able to call and connect with and things like that. Of course you always have more people with more buy-in than others. But I think seeing that group and all sitting around a table, it was just so cool and being like, okay, we'll see y'all in six months, so we're heading out to see. So that made me feel less nervous about the scientist aspect of it. And'cause a lot of them are interested in sharing and very cool people. I've just never done anything like this. I think the thing I'm most nervous for is just being out at sea for two straight months, because yeah, it might seem normal to us, but, the ship doesn't dock. You're out at sea for two months, I'm pumped to be able to do that, but also a little bit nervous just'cause I haven't done it before. Yeah. You're away from family. I know there's a pet wall. People put up pictures of all of their pets on the wall and things like that and just, it's such a unique experience. But if I had, I'm not doing what I'm doing now. I feel like a field scientist would've been one of my other passions. So I'm excited to live a little bit of that life for a couple months.

Alexis 46:17

Oh, you'll love it. It'll, it'll be like a shock to your system. You'll be lost for a li least a week of being like, where am I? What's happening? But when is this? Once you get used to it, it's absolutely beautiful. I think you're gonna love it. It's a wonderful experience. I think you're gonna love being at sea. My only advice would be it's probably gonna be boring, more boring than you think. I think a lot of people come on the ship expecting it to be this like really romantic, wonderful experience, which it is. But I do think that you also hit that plateau, that you're like, everything is blue. I haven't seen. Anything to break up the horizon for six days. It's just been staring at the same thing and it does hit that, that funny, sailors must have gone crazy back in the day point. Yes.

Erin 47:01

Yeah. I will say, my, my hope is I met, one of the other scientists and he's a big bird watcher that's gonna be on board, so he's gonna bring bird books for that area. So we're hoping you never know, depending on where the ship is what the birds are gonna be like. But try to get some birdwatching in there too and nerd out over some birds too. We'll see.

Alexis 47:16

I can't wait to see your videos aboard the Jr. I think it's just gonna be such a wonderful experience and I love that you get to have that, dream realized or that other kind of other era that could have existed being a field scientist. Yes. So that's amazing.

Erin 47:31

Oh, thanks. I'm so excited.

Alexis 47:32

Ah, that's lovely. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I learned so much about science communication and just so many practical tips I learned about the science, the International Space Station. It was just so lovely speaking with you. I just can't wait to see your upcoming projects and kind of the future of you, of where it's gonna go and what you're gonna do.

Erin 47:50

Thanks so much. I appreciate all the support.

Alexis 47:52

For anyone listening, this is the Smoko podcast. We will see you next Wednesday. Please tune in and take a break with us. We are on Smoko Tata, for now.