Alexis: 0:00

Hello. Hello everybody and welcome to this MoCo podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your house, nice to meet you. The MoCo Podcast is a place to celebrate and highlight women working within STEM and trade occupations. Tune in, take a break. We're on smoko, and today we're really lucky that we're joined by one of my favorite people of all time, soon to be Dr. Rachel Gray. We've worked together. With I O D P, which we'll talk about today. She currently is a PhD student at Kent State University in the Department of Earth Sciences. She studies geochemistry and specifically arctic geochemistry where she's trying to understand the effects on nutrient availability and primary productivity. Her reach research is focused on nutrient delivery and benthic remineralization and how that evolves under warmer conditions. She has worked for the International Ocean Discovery Program for a long time. She has sailed around the world. She also is a teacher. She went back and got her m MSC in teaching from the American Museum of Natural History, where she taught eighth grade physical science up in upstate New York. So this is gonna be a jampacked episode where we talk all things, her research, her time aboard the JR and Saline around the world, and also her time working as a physical science teacher. So Rich, it is so nice

Rachael: 1:15

to see you. Welcome, welcome. Yeah, great to see you again. I'm really excited to, to do this.

Alexis: 1:21

Thank you. I'm really excited too. To start us off, and this is one of my favorite questions, to ask anybody in geosciences because I feel like geosciences is such an oddball career to choose and to go down. Could you walk us through how you chose geosciences and how you became an oceanographer and chemist and really how you fell in love with this industry and this field of study?

Rachael: 1:42

Totally. For a lot of people it's a long story of getting there. There's not necessarily a lot of people who, at five years old say, I want to be a geologist or be a geochemist. A lot of people find this field, later on, and this is something that is a challenge for universities that are trying to bring in new students. How do we make students want to study this? I went to Ohio State University. I started as an English major, and it just seemed like something that was the path of least resistance. Something I was good at in high school. And so I figured that would be, an easy major and I would come out of it with a degree and then maybe go on to teaching or go to law school, something like that. I didn't really have a well thought out plan for what I actually wanted to do, but it just seemed an easy path to, study English. And then I had to take a science credit, so I took, geology 100 rocks for Jocks class. And I think what really happened with that was I had a professor who just kicked off the class just by showing us pictures of herself, like in the Himalayas, doing research in the Andes, doing research. And it was also like she was a young. Woman it was just such a classic, like you can't be it unless you see it moment of oh, like geologists are not all old white dudes. They're not, all these crusty old guys that you're stereotype in your head is, and also this is a way that you can,, see the world. I didn't instantly walk down to the registrar and change my major, but, that was the beginning. I took a few more classes cuz I needed a few more science credits. I think around my junior year I realized that this is what I actually wanted to do. I changed my major. I got a Bachelor of Science in in geology. And, along the way I also started doing research with a researcher on campus working on Arctic Ocean sediment cores. Thinking about questions of, how has the Arctic changed now? How has the Arctic Ocean changed in the past? How can we use sediment cores, to reconstruct the history of the Arctic Ocean? And it's really important because the Arctic Ocean is, very sensitive to climate change. It's, changes there, can drive further climate change. There are aspects of the Arctic that are real tipping points for climate change. So it's an important region to study, and. Until fairly recently, it's been hard to collect sediment cores from there, because it's so hard to, get long stratographic records, under, deep ice cover. I started that project as an undergraduate. It was a lot of just lab work, a lot of, just processing samples, pretty routine work, but, there's something really special about working with this material that has been so many people have worked so hard to retrieve it. Precious material in that sense. So that was, that was my undergraduate research project. That was my undergraduate job. When I was ready to graduate, it happened to be, in the middle of a recession. I didn't have a job and my, researcher that I'd been working with had money available for a master's student. So it worked out for me to, stay on as a master's student. And that was where I started to get more into the, geochemistry aspects of studying the ocean. I worked with, some radiogenic isotope projects. We can talk more about that if anyone is interested in radiogenic isotopes. This was when I got into geochemistry, during my master's project. And then my advisor also sent me out to be a participating scientist, on a seismic, data collection cruise. North of Alaska, so I got to go to sea for the first time. Probably the highlight of my whole master's project. Even though it wasn't really directly related to my research, like part of it. It was just a side project, but it was a really special experience. It planted this idea in my head, when I was out there that there are people who do that full-time. Staff members on scientific research vessels who spend, huge chunks of their lives at sea, supporting, scientific research That seed was planted in my head. A job came up, working on a scientific research vessel and, that, That ended up being what I did next, which I think you know a little bit about,

Alexis: 6:05

all right. Absolutely. Just love the whole aspect of people getting into geology because I do think that there's also a pipeline directly of rocks to jocks, to a geology major. So many people, they're like, yeah, I just took a bird course and then I ended up becoming a geologist like two years later. I do love that it was this like badass, like Laura Dern out of Jurassic Park type woman that showed up that you're like, okay, this is gonna be who I'm gonna be. I also love that the side quest aspect, the one side project of your masters ended up being your career for a long period of time and being like, okay, I'm gonna work on a research vessel and this is now me. You worked for the I O D P, which is the International Ocean Discovery Program, and you ran both the chemistry and the core description lab and you. Worked there for years and you've sailed around the world. How many expeditions have you done? Did you actually finally do and could you describe your time working for the I O D P if someone is maybe unaware of the program or doesn't really understand what life is like when you're working aboard a research vessel?

Rachael: 7:07

Sure. Yeah, so I O D P, at the moment stands for International Ocean Discovery Program. At the time I started working for them, it was actually stood for the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program. Which is maybe a little more descriptive of what it is than discovery. But I O D P, the idea behind it is, sending research vessels out, to collect cores from the sea floor. So drilling into the sea floor below the water, and pulling up these cores. And then the ships are basically floating research laboratories. Where once scientists have this material in hand, they can do all sorts of different analyses to figure out how old this material is, what kind of, physical changes it's gone through, and reconstruct the, the geological history of that area. Think about things like tectonics, earthquake hazards, geochemistry microbes, all various aspects of science, going on below the sea floor. That's the basic idea. A different group of scientists, comes out for every expedition, two months at a time, and, just does science for two months straight. And then in addition to the science party, there is also, A big support crew. Yeah. There's the actual ships crew, the people who, who drive the boat. And people who, take care of all of us, people who cook the food and keep everything clean and running smoothly. And then there's a core of, research technicians, people who keep the labs running and really keep a lot of continuity, of the procedures from one expedition to another. Support the scientists in, whatever their scientific goals are for the expedition. Make sure that this material that we have gone to a great deal of effort and spent a great deal of money to get, is taken care of, is handed properly, and that we're getting the most science out of it that we can. That was the job being a technician. As you mentioned, I started out in the chemistry lab. I eventually worked, doing core description lab. In both of those cases, helping the scientists assigned to those labs, do what they needed to do, giving them the support, helping them run instruments, and just, keeping the science going.

Alexis: 9:27

And how many did you sail on Rich? Did you ever figure out your final number?

Rachael: 9:32

I wanna say 11 or 12. I don't actually remember, but I think 11 or 12 expeditions and then dang in between those also, even when the ship was not on an expedition, spending time on the ship, keeping things. Running and maintained. Generally the schedule is two months on, two months off. So every year, six months of that year is spent on a shift in one capacity or another.

Alexis: 9:58

Maybe for people who don't know the program is like when we're talking about two months, we're completely at sea. So once we leave port, we usually don't come in unless it's been an emergency or something has happened that we have to come in. But we're straight up at sea for two months straight. It's only 120 people. There's shift shifts as well. So you probably end up seeing the same 60 people and that's it for two months. Sometimes you don't see the statin for two months. You live in a little, bunk which you share with someone else, like a little bunk bed situation, you know, hot bunk, thank goodness. But, it's two months of pure science and we're also in charge of doing, The technology behind capturing a lot of this data. If she's done 10 expeditions how much time does that go? I think it's like almost at 2.5 years or

Rachael: 10:42

something like that. I think I worked it out to be a little over two and a half years, when all this all is said and done.

Alexis: 10:47

2.5 years of your lifespan at sea, which is absolutely crazy. Like a sailor of the old days. I explained our, like our lifestyle when we did that almost as being roadies for a traveling musician or something. Like it had that kinda that lifestyle to an extent. Your favorite memory of this time, of your life, of working as a technician and living aboard this fast. So what's your favorite one, and then maybe what's the flip side of that? What's something that you don't miss about living as a technician?

Rachael: 11:16

Favorite memory is hard, I feel like. I don't think of that many specific moments of, this was wonderful, but just the general, sense of being part of a team, being part of a group of people where, we worked together really closely, for long periods of time and that's, your only company. You got really close with the people you work with, to the point that you just have a little shorthand with each other. That's really special. Some of the things I got to see, I shouldn't say don't have a favorite memory. Some of the things I got to see were really special. Getting to see icebergs, being off the coast of Alaska, where it's light out at three in the morning, that was extremely cool. Being within o'clock within sight of, The mountains of Alaska and being at sea. Those are all special memories. Getting to see so many, special things sailing into Hong Kong, and just seeing this big, beautiful city emerging out As far as things I don't miss, it gets hard. It's two months on and it is fully on. There's no breaks for holidays. There's no weekend. You're working 12 hours a day. At minimum. At minimum. It wears you down, after enough time, it, it does wear you down, to work that schedule. As you're departing the ship and you're just thinking, oh, I am. I'm gonna be back here in two months doing this again. Yeah. It's, yep. It's a, it can be a grind.

Alexis: 12:44

I think my answers would probably be the same some of the best things that I think of or that I miss is seeing some beautiful, like natural things like icebergs and Hong Kong and like cities, but also seeing animals like the first time that I saw a whale shark will still live in my head rent free for the rest of my life. Cause I just lost my mind. Like I almost started crying. I was just like a whale shark and I just

Rachael: 13:07

like couldn't handle

Alexis: 13:08

it. Same thing with like humpback whales or the first time I saw a tin win and like any first animal that I've ever seen, I probably almost cried to just sitting in there like smoking cuz I was still smoking at the time. Just being like, oh my God, so beautiful. So like I always think of that. One of my favorite memories that I think of is cuz Rachel is right, it is a long two months and like you do hit that point of like week six, week five, where you lose your mind. Rachel has seen me at some of the worst times of my life because your mental health does take a dip. But one of the aspects of that, in a funny way is that everyone kind of starts going a little bit loopy and like we had a pigeon that was aboard the ship and do you remember this? And it died? Yeah. Yeah. Rachel de, yeah. Rachel decided that we should hold a Viking funeral board and we sang taps and we were all dressed up and then we hung it over the bottom and we did like R I PMO and we like all sat there very, like we were completely loopy doopy.

Rachael: 14:11

No, that actually yeah. So now I'm now thinking of favorite memories and that's a favorite memory. Yeah. We also, we had a fake jug band, that we created that was in honor of the pigeon, I think. yes, it is. So that was, yeah. So that was a great memory. Just the collective silliness that you can get to. When you've been at sea for that long. It can be really fun. On a good expedition, it will go towards silliness and not like sniping and Yeah. Nastiness rude. But if it becomes like a fun silliness of, we have all been in this thing for so long that we have lost all inhibitions and our just

Alexis: 14:50

Yeah. Unhinged. We're just unhinged at this point and we're here together. I love the unhinged goofiness. That does happen on some expeditions. I think it's a really good thing to call out of sometimes with mental health when you work these type of jobs that it is two months like, and I wasn't joking. Rich has seen me at some of probably my worst times or like my darkest times. I think there was one where I didn't see the sun for two months and I think I was actually starting to lose it and Rachel had to be like, flex, like you are starting to lose it. Like you need to maybe go and take a break and re rethink this a little bit because you don't realize how tired you are and how your environment can affect you. Not seeing the sun really did affect me, I was stuck on graveyard shift and I didn't see sunlight for two months, And you're just tired, you're exhausted. So I think that's a really good call out and thank you for mentioning it because it is a real effect of this type of, unfortunately this type of

Rachael: 15:46

work. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I will just say that I think you also saw me at some of my, darkest moments too. So it definitely went both ways. Yeah,

Alexis: 15:55

definitely. That's the thing. That's maybe the only like good thing is you have collective goofiness, but you also have collective people that are all there to be like, yep, you know what? You're gonna see me like this in one week. And we're all in it together a little bit. After you completed your I Time aboard working as a technician. You left, which was very sad, and I was mourning. You went to complete your master's in teaching from the American Museum of Natural History, and then you went on to teach eighth grade physical science up in upstate New York. Could you walk us through why the switch to teaching? What made you wanna become a teacher? And then what aspect of teaching physical science did you love the

Rachael: 16:31

most? So I think I had always had somewhere in the back of my mind that I wanted to teach in some way. And then after, I had gotten my science degrees and spent some time at sea, it seemed logical that science teaching would be a good step. There's always demand for science teachers. This program happened to be happening, is still happening at the American Museum of Natural History, where you can get a master of arts and teaching, and become. A science teacher through this program, where all of your education is paid for. And you get to do it at, a major research institution and Cultural institution, like the American Museum, natural history. So that just seemed like the next step. While I was at I O D P, I did start to feel my mental health wearing down, and I just got the sense that I didn't wanna do this forever, and it was time, to make the next move. The program was really wonderful. I had another really supportive, wonderful group of people around me going through the program with me. My cohort were wonderful and, that was great. And I got a job. In upstate New York in a very charming little town. The first year, not the full year, we'll get into that was wonderful. Just, connecting with students. I felt very well prepared by the program that I had been participating in. Still had a lot of support even into my first And second year of teaching. I liked the students a lot. That was an aspect that I really loved. I loved, the fact that it was eighth grade. We're not quite getting into a time when testing is so emphasized when college admissions are so emphasized. So it's still a point where you can have some fun with students. Eighth graders are a really nice age where like they still appreciate a goofy sense of humor. They can appreciate, a little bit of sarcasm too. It's a fun age. I know some people will say, oh my gosh, eighth grade was so hard. And there are a lot of hard things going on for students at that age, but It's also still a time when you can have fun with them as a teacher. I loved that aspect of it. But I started, my first year of teaching was the 20 19, 20 20 school year, so right around March, shut down for Covid. Oh. And then, goodness. And then the year after that was really rough just because we were still figuring out how can we do school safely? How can we do all of this safely? And so that was, that was a rough. Transition and that was a, it was a really challenging time teaching through Covid

Alexis: 19:12

I couldn't even imagine that's like completely falling off the cliff, right? It goes from one thing of being normal life, normal teaching, and you're just getting started and getting your feet under you. I think it's testament to you and how badass you are that you think eighth grade is like a lovely time to teach. I would be terrified of them. I think that they would bully me and I do not think that I would be able to control the class. But the fact that you could is a testament to you. But, then it's a complete fricking fall off the cliff. I couldn't imagine how difficult that was. My next question was probably what was the most challenging aspect, but I'm guessing it was covid.

Rachael: 19:46

I think I had this first year where I still had all of my ideals about teaching and I don't think it was entirely covid upending things. I think a lot of it was just covid revealing a lot of problems that had been there. I don't wanna be like society, man. Yeah. But really a lot of structure, man. Yes. I mean really it unveiled a lot of structural problems, In our society. The fact that so many kids. If they're not going to school, they might not be getting a meal. If they're not coming to school in person, that might be the only time they eat all day is the school lunch. So many kids who just would have nowhere to go would just be completely unsupervised if they don't have in-person school. Yeah. All of a sudden. The struggle for so many of them that, they signed up to do online school, but didn't actually have the internet access that they needed A lot of them were, had to ride around in cars with their parents while trying to do school from a cell phone, because that was how their parents' schedules worked. When they didn't have school to go to, that was what was available for them. Oh my goodness. It revealed a lot of just how much our lack of a safety net for. The most vulnerable students, how much it harmed them. That was really challenging. And it really having online school, I got a lot of insight into, the home lives of a lot of students, some students who just had to live in this environment where it's just constant noise, they live in an apartment where somebody's blasting music 24 7 and they're supposed to learn in that environment. And then I felt like the, where my school district came down on it was that, your primary role is to make sure these kids have somewhere to go and whether they learn anything or not, that's secondary. To, to just making sure they're okay and simple. Yeah. And that is important. And I don't wanna discount the importance of that, but it also felt a little bit like being told that, you're a babysitter. This was a time before we had Covid vaccinations, and it felt like our health was being put at risk.

Alexis: 21:52

You're still going through a pandemic yourself. Yeah. So no one knew

Rachael: 21:55

anything at that time. And they basically said, we need you to be here in person for these kids who won't have anywhere else to go. We think that we're willing to take that risk on your behalf. And you're like, no, we've decided that you'll take that risk. So that was really hard. I felt pretty devalued by that. That was, a moment where I decided that teaching right now in public schools in K through 12 wasn't gonna be right for me right now because it was. Such a hard. Two years that I couldn't see myself walking back into a school for a third year, at that moment. Who knows what my future will hold, maybe in the future. Going back to some kind of K-12 teaching role is not out of the question for me, but in that moment, it was not something I was gonna keep doing.

Alexis: 22:40

I'm sorry that was the direction that your school district went in, because I think Yes, completely. I would've felt completely devalued, but I also just don't think that you guys are trained for that either. That's almost a role of a social worker, a role of Counselor, a therapist. It's more a public health or a mental health space, let alone like a teacher. I love my students and I wanna represent the stability in their life. But at the same time, I teach geology or I teach chemistry. I probably would've made the same decision. I'm sorry that happened to you. and I'm sorry that kind of all teachers across the board went through that, right?

Rachael: 23:14

Absolutely. I'll just point out that there are a lot of teachers leaving the profession right now. There has been a large spike in teachers who've decided this isn't for me. Because all of these responsibilities beyond teaching have been piled on for so long, and so many teachers go into it, with the intention of doing good, with the intention of changing lives. And the system just takes advantage of that. But they don't provide the resources, they don't provide the support systems of those social workers, of those counselors. They just say, we're gonna pile this on you. There's this completely toxic phrase of don't do it for the income. Do it for the outcome. And it's basically just saying, we know we don't pay you enough. We know that we don't. Support you enough, but we're gonna take advantage of your nature as a person Who wants to do good and make you feel guilty about being wildly undersupported.

Alexis: 24:07

We know that you're a good person and we know that you love these kids and we're gonna manipulate you and use the, your love of these kids to make you do things that are outside of your scope. Absolutely. Ugh. No, that's bad. You left the profession and then you went back to academia and went back to research, and you're currently doing your PhD, understanding the geochemistry of the Arctic Ocean. The Arctic Ocean is one of the most rapidly changing warming regions of the world. It's super susceptible to climate change and it's almost like the canary in the coal mine that it's one of the first indicators that there's a problem. You're studying how changes within the Arctic Ocean, it would have effects on nutrient availability and primary productivity. Could you walk through what these two things mean? What is nutrient availability and primary productivity, and then why is the Arctic that canary in the coal mine?

Rachael: 24:58

The idea here is that the ocean is a huge place for life. And when we say primary productivity, we're referring to the bottom of the food chain. We're talking about those organisms, single-celled organisms, in the ocean that are, photosynthesizing, that are taking carbon out of the atmosphere, turning it into biomass. Turning it into organic matter, turning it into what is gonna fuel, the rest of the ecosystem. And there are places in the ocean where that primary productivity is limited, by what nutrients are available. So in some places the ocean is limited by how much of the element phosphorus is available. In some places it's limited by nitrogen. When that element runs out, the. That's the cap on of productivity. How much of this primary productivity can happen. How much carbon can be pulled out of the atmosphere and become part of this ocean ecosystem, right? And that's a big control on the amount of carbon in the atmosphere. If we're able to see that primary productivity increase, that is potentially a way that some of this carbon that's in the atmosphere is going to be, organic carbon. Yeah. Use that. Become organic carbon, become, part of the long-term storage, in sediments as opposed to cycling through the atmosphere and leading to, climate change problems. So this is potentially, a feedback on, let me back this up. So this is, this nutrient availability, It can be the limiting factor on primary productivity in the oceans. And one of the things that we haven't really appreciated about how these nutrients get into the oceans, is that ice sheets are actually, Really important parts of nutrient delivery to the oceans. We have these ice sheets underneath them. We can have a lot of chemical weathering happening. We can have physical weathering happening and they can be really efficient nutrient factories. They're melt water can, help deliver nutrients. It can help cause upwelling that brings nutrients, to where our photosynthesizers can use them. So ice sheets can be really important parts of this cycle that we don't always think about. As ice sheets melt, it's possible that they will become even more important parts of this cycle. To understand how future ice sheet melting, might. Perturb the bio geochemical cycling in the oceans. We can look back to, the past so we can look at sediment cores that record where sediments is coming from, where these nutrients are coming from, how they've been stored, in the deep sea in sediments on continental shelves. And we can start to get a sense of what we might expect in the future. How melting ice sheets are gonna change nutrient delivery, nutrient availability in the oceans.

Alexis: 27:57

To paraphrase maybe for someone who's not in oceanography, so you're looking at the changes in ice sheet records basically through time because ice sheets, when they either break down physically or the chemical, it's going to introduce higher amount of nutrients. And the two nutrient cycles that we're looking at is at phosphorus and nitrogen, depending on where you're at within the water column and area of the ocean. You're looking at nitrogen and phosphorus and you're looking at that increase within ocean chemistry and how that interacts with the carbon cycle of going from inorganic carbon and bringing it down into the deep ocean to stored into this organic. Carbon to enter into an organic system. The spike of nutrients will increase the spike of primary productivity, which will then have the cycle of carbon. So that's the loop that we're looking at,

Rachael: 28:46

right? Yeah. So just to clarify, when we're thinking about the chemical weathering, we're really thinking about the ice sheet itself. Sitting on top of bedrock and just grinding away at that bedrock, helping to release nutrients from there. The melt water underneath the ice sheet itself, is gonna help with that chemical weathering help. Wonderful. Turn some of that bedrock into, into forms that will be useful for primary productivity. And then I didn't mention the specific nutrient that I'm focusing on right now. But I'm actually focusing on iron, which we don't always. Okay. Wonderful. Doesn't always come to mind as, a nutrient. We tend to think about phosphorus and nitrogen as our nutrients that limit that primary productivity. But iron is also an important micronutrient and iron can also limit productivity in some parts of the ocean.

Alexis: 29:35

How does it limit, primary productivity in some parts of the ocean? How is it tied there?

Rachael: 29:39

So basically the idea is there are parts of the ocean where there's plenty of nitrogen, there's plenty of phosphorus, but we still don't observe high amounts of chlorophyl. So we call these high nutrient, low chlorophyl regions. If we have those big ingredients of phosphorus and nitrogen, why aren't we maxing out the amount of primary productivity here? So in some places, other micronutrients are the limiting factor there, or what we're missing to really kick that productivity into high gear. So there are places on earth where, iron is that nutrient. There's a lot of the ocean where iron is readily available. It's not a limiting nutrient, but in places like the Southern Ocean, iron is the missing ingredient. There's not as much productivity as there could be because there's not enough iron.

Alexis: 30:26

When you're looking at primary productivity and you're looking at a lack of iron isn't like they're missing that micronutrient nutrient, are you looking at the same species of primary productivity?

Rachael: 30:37

I don't really think about things on the species level. I think my approach is more just looking at where is the carbon, where is the iron? How much organic matters getting stored. Thinking about the actual organisms is, not really my focus, partly because I'm thinking on, from a paleo perspective, we're looking at what we can see in the sediment record. We can't necessarily tease out the specific organisms, but we can tease out how much carbon was being stored, how much iron was available at the time. I think the initial observations, of these high nutrient, low chlorophyl regions, people weren't necessarily looking at a species level. They're just looking at the amount of chlorophyl that's in the water. And we're using that as a proxy for, we see a lot of chlorophyl that tells us there's a lot of primary productivity if we don't see much chlorophyl. That's a good hint that productivity's being limited there.

Alexis: 31:31

Could you talk through nutrient delivery and then ben thick remineralization, and you're looking at how that will evolve under warmer conditions. You're looking at the past to predict the future. So you're looking at past warm cycles. Could you explain why this is being used and how it's being used to predict the future

Rachael: 31:50

so nutrient delivery ties into, those ideas of glaciers, of ice sheets as nutrient factories. What we're thinking about in terms of nutrient delivery of how material is cycling from terrestrial. From land, I don't need to use big words. So how material is cycling from land into the ocean. How it is, potentially either being stored long term in sediments or if, it's able to be used by organisms. After it's been deposited or while it's being deposited. So we're thinking about what is, what's leaving land, what's actually making it into the oceans, what's actually making it into sediments? What's being used? This is what we mean by nutrient delivery. We look at past records of how this nutrient delivery has changed as sheets have changed, as, air temperatures have changed, as water temperatures have changed, because we know that those are also likely to change in the near future. And so if we can, come up with a model of, this is what's happened in the past when this ice sheet has been collapsing, when we've had temperature fluctuations, that gives us a sense of this is what we might expect. In the near future or in the far future? how this might affect ecosystems, how it might affect fisheries, how it might affect human populations that depend on arctic areas. For subsistence fishing, things like that.

Alexis: 33:15

The whole holistic view of the Arctic and every single different industry as well. From an iron perspective, how are you just specifically looking at how iron, if it is or is not in the system during all of those steps? Is that kind of what your research has really tuned

Rachael: 33:31

in on? So at the moment, I'm focusing on iron and not just the bulk quantity of iron, but also questions of how bioavailable that iron is. Is it, iron that's incorporated into relatively easily remobilize forms or is it iron that's, in what we might call recalcitrant forms or non-reactive forms? So once this iron is delivered, if it's in a form that's really hard to get out, if it's in a really hardy mineral, that's gonna be harder to remobilize than if we have this really reactive iron that's, being delivered to the sea floor in ways that, readily available to be remobilize.

Alexis: 34:11

When you're talking about reation, are you talking about the ease that it would break out of its inorganic, kind of mineralization?

Rachael: 34:18

Yeah, exactly. Okay. And we get at this in the lab by taking these sediments and, exposing them to different reagents, exposing'em to different chemicals. And then we basically just look and see, this iron was able to be extracted very easily. We took one solution, pulled it all out, this this iron, we did four different things to it and it was still in that mineral form. So this is not gonna be as reactive. So we can think about how reactive, how available this iron is and where

Alexis: 34:50

is both the active and non-active iron. Where is that coming into the system in the Arctic Ocean? What are the two big sources of iron? In the rocks that you're looking at and the sediments that you're looking at?

Rachael: 35:03

We're still in the process of trying to figure that out. Our thinking is that, again, this glacial delivery from under and actively melting glacier, could be a big source. That's, major concern. We can also think about potentially, material that, gets, entrained gets pulled into, icebergs. So as icebergs are calving off of a glacier chicken drop, those can also potentially move, material a lot further, from the ice source and, distribute that iron and those other, other terrestrial materials further a field.

Alexis: 35:38

That's like a forensic, death of an iceberg basically, or like a grind of an iceberg to try to figure out where this iron is coming from, which I really love. Thank you for getting into it and thank you for discussing your research. It's so interesting and it's just so cool because it, the fact that this one. Marker in geochemistry, how big of an impact it can have to primary productivity and then in turn how that's related to the entire geochemistry of the Arctic. It's such cool research. One aspect of your research that's coming up is you are doing an expedition with the I O D P, so you're about to leave on fairly soon in the next little bit to Expedition 400. Could you maybe speak to this and about how cool and potentially surreal it is that you're coming back to our old job as a research scientist other than as a marine technician and anything that you're really looking forward to or anything that's associated to this that you're excited about?

Rachael: 36:33

Yeah. So this is a really cool opportunity. I'm very excited. I'm gonna be, we talked earlier about I O D P. We have different groups of scientists. Come on board for two months at a time. So I'm gonna be one of those scientists now, which is really exciting. A little strange, but really exciting. I'm gonna be, sailing as an inorganic geochemist. So back in the chemistry lab where I started, we're gonna be sailing off the coast of Greenland. We're gonna start out in Brachi Iceland. We're gonna sail to Northwest Greenland. We're gonna hopefully drill some cores, get some material, and, answer some of these questions that I've been asking about nutrient delivery, about Biogeochemical cycles, in this context of Greenland. An ice sheet that has gone through a lot of glacial cycles, has potentially been entirely gone, and then reformed multiple times over, recent ish geologic history. So to be able to look at those records over a long time scale over many glacial cycles, put together some ideas about how nutrient delivery might change as unfortunately, the Greenland ice sheet is dramatically changing.

Alexis: 37:49

It's as a full circle moment that you're going back to where you started in the Ken Lab. I think that's absolutely fantastic. It is probably gonna feel weird cuz a lot of people that we work with are still there and like old bosses that you're gonna be like, oh, hello, nice to see you

Rachael: 38:04

again. Yep. I made the joke that I could just be like very demanding just to complete diva, just make things absolutely miserable for the technicians. Of course I wouldn't actually, I will try not to do that, but, yeah. Maybe I could, play the Diva for a little bit and then, let the,

Alexis: 38:23

oh, I think you a hundred percent should play the diva. A hundred percent. You should.

Rachael: 38:30

I worked with scientists who just walked in and just absolutely just had. Nothing nice to say. Just what kind of lab is this? Is this a lab for imbeciles? What's the matter with this place? Who's running this place? Just absolute abuse. Yeah. Curled at me. Obviously I would never actually do that, but it's tempting to, maybe put that on for half an hour and get people a little scared.

Alexis: 38:55

A hundred percent. I think you should just play into it for five seconds of it. But I agree. I know that you, you won't actually, but yeah. Some of the scientists that would just like treat you as like a running maid and you're like, we're all scientists here too, man. We created those machines that you're running and your data is all dependent on us. Like, what? And they'll just be like, get me a marker. And you're like, okay, like there's 10 in your hand right now. Like, please just calm down with this power trip. Like it's 2:00 AM ma'am. Go have a coffee and come back.

Rachael: 39:27

Yeah. But I am genuinely excited. My first expedition was actually to Greenland. That was my first time. On the Jodi's resolution, on our research vessel. It's cool to, to do that again. It's not cool that the program is coming to an end. Yes. That's not cool. I'm excited to get one, one last, one last trip in before, before the program wraps up.

Alexis: 39:51

I'm happy that you get to go back on the vote and I just think it's so freaking cool that you do as a full circle moment. And I love that. First and last one for iot d p was to Greenland. That's pretty, pretty wonderful. It's gonna be cool to sail on it again. You're gonna be stuck eating potatoes and onions for two months, so I don't, envy you there. But other than that, it's gonna be fantastic. You've had such a cool time in STEM and you've done so much, you've done academia and doing your master's at Ohio State and now PhD at Kent State. You've worked for a US national program and an international program with I R D P for years and sailed around the world. And then you worked in education and early education as a teacher. Like I feel like you've done every aspect of stem, cause of that. Could you maybe speak to this idea of women in stem? Cuz I think you hear that phrase a lot about being a woman in stem. Is there any misconceptions about that title? Do you feel a certain way about it? Can you maybe speak to that Cuz it's a buzzword that's used a lot. Yeah.

Rachael: 40:53

I don't know that I can think of any specific misconceptions about women in stem, except maybe it's a misconception that there's anything universal about being a woman in stem. That any, there are gonna be experiences that a lot of women in STEM have. but I don't know that any one woman's story is gonna be universal. I know that different people are gonna face different challenges, being, having assumptions made about them. We think a lot about how, being a parent, being a mother, is, still stigmatized in a lot of corners of stem. Ideas about, what women can do. We're luckily no longer living in a time when women aren't allowed to go out on research vessels because they're just not considered spaces for women. The Jodi's resolution has always had women when it's been functioning as a research vessel. So I'm proud to be part of that long line. That's true. So that's, this is an answer that's going anywhere, but, no, but it's a good answer. That nobody, there's no one experience as a woman in stem. I'm lucky to feel like I don't feel like I've ever been held back because of my gender. I've maybe been an environment that, I've felt a little uncomfortable in. For sure, but I don't know that I've ever felt that doors have been closed in my face, because of it. I know that's not the case for other women. I don't wanna be a person who says, it's not a problem for me. So it's not a problem for anyone. I'm not gonna, as a scientist, I'm not gonna use a sample size of one to make that conclusion. I think, all we can do is listen to each other and support each other and recognize that my experience is not, your experience is not someone else's experience. I have fellow students who are going through things, are having challenges that, partly might be tied to their gender in very subtle ways of ways that they're being treated because of their gender. We wanna recognize that is still something that people face.

Alexis: 42:51

No, thank you for that answer. And I honestly think that is, that's a perfect answer for this question. It was a little bit of a vague question to be honest with you, but it's because it's such this like universal phrase that you hear all the time to be like, what is it like to be a woman in stem? And you've done all the, every single aspect of woman in stem. So I wanted to ask you about it and about that kinda stereotype or that misconception. And I think the answer of being like, yeah, my experience. As a woman who happens to work in STEM, is not the representation of women in stem. And I think that's where we need to move from that buzzword to be like, yes, every single experience is gonna be in individualistic. I love that you've had a wonderful experience and you haven't felt, limited by your gender being in this industry. But then you're right, it's not gonna be the experience of everyone. And we're gonna know people close to us that have struggled because of their gender in some way, whether it's overt or very nuanced or what have you. It's gonna look different for every person. To wrap us up, I have one last question. But lastly, what's something that you're currently looking, forward to and that you're currently working on?

Rachael: 43:58

There's a new episode of succession on tomorrow night, so that's just as far as I can. No, I go into Greenland. It's definitely. The very exciting thing that's looming ahead. I am about to do PhD candidacy exams. I'm excited for those to be over. Hopefully with a successful outcome. Yes. So I'm excited about that. I'm looking forward to, just keeping on with the research I'm doing. I have some exciting, collaborative stuff happening with, researchers in Norway. So I'm gonna be traveling there, in the fall for a meeting and to hopefully, make some headway on some collaborations there. It's juggling multiple projects at once, but they're all really exciting projects and I couldn't feel any more lucky to Oh, to get to do them.

Alexis: 44:44

It's just such a blessing. I love to see you. So happy to see you. So excited. And you're right, like exposition 400 is coming up. It is gonna be so freaking cool. You're gonna ace your candidacy exams. Norway is gonna be so cool. What are you collaborating on? What is that project?

Rachael: 44:58

So the materials I've been working on so far, are part of what, the Nonsense Legacy Project. So this is a project based in Norway, based after, their national hero, NEN, Arctic Explorer. The sediments I have were retrieved as part of this project. I wasn't on it, it was something my advisor was on before we knew each other. But as a culmination to this project, they're having a meeting in Norway that's talking about all things Arctic, all things, related to ecosystem change. So I'll get to meet some of these people I've only known as heads on a Zoom window, and hopefully move forward, with, working on these projects collaboratively. Something people don't necessarily realize is that a lot of seagoing research is very collaborative. You're working with different people to understand different aspects, of this material. Know one person can understand all of the aspects. Being part of this, Collaborative meeting is something I'm looking forward to as well.

Alexis: 45:53

You're right, I think like one oceanographic cruises are just so hard to, arrange logistically and then to get that material, it's so expensive, it's so hard to get like a lot of blood, sweat and tears go into it. So I think that fosters collaboration just because you have to. Enjoy your time in Norway. That sounds amazing. Thank you so much for the time today. Thank you so much for coming on and it was so good to see

Rachael: 46:16

you. Thank you. It was a lot of fun to talk.

Alexis: 46:19

Awesome. Cool. Thank you everybody. This was Amoco podcast. Thank you for listening, and we will see you next week. Bye.