Alexis 0:01

Hello, hello and welcome to the Smoko Podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your host. The Smoko Podcast is a place to highlight and celebrate women working within STEM and trade occupations. So please tune in, take a break, join us. We're on Smoko, and today we are extremely lucky to be joined by the lovely Peter Cox who is phoning in all the way from Sydney, Australia, which is absolutely amazing. She is a. Legend and an expert within her field of geospatial and surveying. She currently works as a national training and development manager at Consulting Surveys National, where she is in charge of creating a national vocational education course in surveying. She has also created her own platform called the Defining Boundaries Podcast, which is a podcast which highlights people within the surveying and spatial industry. Peter, it's just so lovely to have you today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Peta 0:53

Oh, Alexis, thank you for asking me. It's very exciting to be on the other end of a podcast for a change.

Alexis 0:59

Yeah, you to like relax I guess, or just,

Peta 1:02

Ooh, I dunno about that. I think you're probably more relaxed when I'm on the other side asking the questions, but anyway.

Alexis 1:10

Well, thank you very much. Thank you for coming on the show again. It's an honor. And I think just to maybe start us off for people that are unaware of surveying, cause I didn't really know too much about the industry. I'll say straight up, before I listen to your podcast, but ji maybe walk through, the field of surveying, how you become aware with it and how you started to work within this industry.

Peta 1:32

So I'll start off with, what is a surveyor? There are different types of surveyors. I'll start off basically with the land surveyor, which is where we start. The encompassing thing of surveyor is basically mapping. Real world, natural surface, structures on earth. So we're positioning where things are, determining where boundaries are, the heights of things and things like that. So we're sort of mapping things out. So we use that information to be able to then go and, put buildings up, design things. It's used in all different types of ways, whether you're doing, hydrographic surveying, engineering surveying, land surveying, there's so many different types of surveying. It's just a, an overarching kind of thing of we, we map the world, basically. We pick up the features of the

Alexis 2:22

world. No biggie, just mapping the entire world.

Peta 2:25

And the thing with the surveyor is that, especially when you're looking at construction and things like that, we're the first person on a job. And we're the last person to, to finish there. So we're very

Alexis 2:35

important. Yeah, the first person to do a map of the initial site and then to make sure that you actually followed the plan. Is that the

Peta 2:42

idea? So in Australia, if we are looking on, construction sites and stuff, we're defining where the boundaries are so that the building is built within the boundaries. We're then placing marks so that they can do footings, they can put up their, retaining walls that they start, as they start going up in the floors, we're positioning all the grids for the columns. So we're involved in the whole process, the whole way through, making sure the heights are correct, the positions correct, all of that kind of stuff, until you get to the final, once the building is complete. From start to finish we're in

Alexis 3:16

there. Wow. You're like not even in there. You're like foundational. A linchpin. That's really cool.

Peta 3:22

Yep. Exactly. So surveying, I fell into it, so I left school. My cousin went into surveying at university. I went to uni to start nursing. Did that for a year, had a bit of a gap. I was a single parent and needed to find something that was going to, support me and my young son at the time. And I've always been an outdoors kind of person, so I didn't wanna have a job indoors. So when I looked at training, what I could, what kind of qualification I could have behind me, it was, landscaping. Or surveying and the landscaping was gonna take four years to complete. The surveying was a two-year course. That was my choice into surveying.

Alexis 4:03

But I would've made the same choice. as a single mom with a young son, anyone would've made the same decision. But It's funny that it came down to a two year program versus four years. Yep. And now it's something that you're so passionate about and something that you love. It's very cool.

Peta 4:17

I know. Who would've thought 28 so years ago. Yeah. But I would be here where I am now. But yeah, I love it. It's been a great career for me. It's supported me through all of my stages. With my transitioning onto the teacher side of it, I've been able to give back and help support the newer generations coming through. And to me that's just, That's an awesome feeling.

Alexis 4:40

That's so cool. Can you see yourself in their shoes when you look at your students that you're like, oh, that's basically a Youngme, or like, you have no idea what you're in for?

Peta 4:48

Yes. Yeah. Being, a single mom, having a baby while doing my course and everything, there was a few of the guys and there was only me and one other, one other girl that was doing the course at the time. Wow. The rest of them were guys. Some of them were working, some weren't. I couldn't get a job. Nobody wanted to employ a single parent, very much a female, single parent. I struggled to get a job while I was doing my training, it was very difficult to actually understand, to put it all together, we did theory, we did field work and everything, but it was in a. A contained area. It wasn't real life. Coming out into the real world made a massive difference when I actually did get a job, to go, ah, this is what it's really about.

Alexis 5:35

And I dunno if this is gonna be tied to what we just talked about but the next one it's a two-part question of what's the most rewarding part of your job in this industry? And then what's something challenging within your industry that unfortunately is a part of surveying?

Peta 5:52

I'll start with the good things. I sit there and I talk about our industry, the profession of surveying. And it's so diverse in what you do, where you go. So the opportunity to be working outside, outdoors. Is just such a great feeling of knowing that, you're not stuck in an office every day, but there's also the office side of it. So you're getting the best of both worlds, within your work. So it's like having every day a little bit of a sense of adventure and going to a new place. And you might be doing the same type of survey, but it's a completely different environment that you're going into. So things are always different. Where I was working, we had jobs all over the place, all over Sydney and we were traveling all the time and seeing, meeting new people and seeing different environments and all that kind of stuff. There's so many places that you can go. You can basically survey all over the world. Choose your different niche of what you wanna work in. Do you wanna work on the water? Do you wanna be on laser scanning, type jobs? Do you wanna work on the CAD side of it, there, there's all these different options. Your engineering side, your land surveying, so many different areas. Once you've done that initial training, you can then specialize in a certain area and move your career that way. It's a great fulfillment, seeing what you are doing. You're there from start to finish on a most of the constructions jobs. It's a real satisfaction to drive past something and go, I helped, yeah, I helped build that. I did that. Yeah. Yeah. We drive along the motorway. Sometimes with the kids and my, my two youngest, he was actually driving on the road and I went, I helped build this road. Oh. So, wow. Really? Yeah.

Alexis 7:35

That's beautiful. I know my dad, my grandfather worked in construction and he worked as, His father was a stone mason. Oh, wow. And also my grandpa would point out everything in Vancouver. My dad still does it. We drive by a building and he'd be like, yes, your grandpa made that. He was part of the crew that made that. You see that like stone thing over there and the way that it works like that, your great-grandfather helps that. Exactly like everything in Vancouver, he points to it, but it's a really cool moment of how proud he is of his father and how proud your. Signs are of you and you are of like, what you were able to do. It's just a beautiful thing.

Peta 8:11

You know, having pride in, in, what you've been able to help accomplish. being part of something bigger as well, which Yeah, it's pretty cool. But I mean, that takes on to, moving into the challenges of it, not only on, the female part of it, but also just a challenge of a surveyor is that you're dealing with a lot of technical equipment, a lot of data, positional wise, depending on what you are doing, how you're collecting that information, how you determine that, what you've collected is ac actually accurate and how you validate your work and all of that kind of stuff. Knowing how to do all of that as well, because if you make a mistake on that side of it can be a real problem.

Alexis 8:48

Yeah, I can imagine. My understanding, I guess from just this brief, you describing it, it sounds almost like you have to understand structural, like structural geology or structural physics. You also have to understand construction data science. It sounds like you have to know a little bit of everything to be able to do your job right. But in that way, it's also gonna be really complicated every single time cuz it's not gonna be the same situation or the same data set or the same kind of structure. It sounds like it's gonna change every time.

Peta 9:17

Correct. From the point of knowing how to read the plans when you're setting something out or picking something up and going, oh, this doesn't seem quite right. Not just accepting what's coming in. You know, into the data collector or whatever, or looking at something and knowing that, it doesn't seem quite right. You'll find that most surveyors are problem solvers. That's our job. And being able to think on your feet and go, okay, this is not right. How are we gonna fix it? What do we need to do? Do some calculations, get on the computer. Check the plans, draw something else up, upload more data, whatever it may be. It's thinking on your feet. You don't have time to go back to the office and sit around for two days and work it out. You gotta do it then and there

Alexis 9:58

Do you find that that's, exciting that you're responsible for that and there's so much on your shoulders or a little bit of both catch 22 exciting nerve-wracking?

Peta 10:07

It's a bit of that catch 22 sometimes because, it's a really good feeling when you do have that problem and you do come up with a solution. And you can, give the client what they need. But yeah, making sure that it is actually the right one is. That it's actually correct that you're, yeah, that's right. Please. Yeah. Yeah. And look, there's some companies where there's just surveyors, people that just go out in the field, they get the data, they go and set it out, or they pick it up. There's somebody in the office, a project manager or whatever that's dealing with the data and stuff like that. It's not always the surveyor doing everything.

Alexis 10:42

It sounds like it's depends on company, but probably also depending on type of surveyor. Cause I know you mentioned there was a couple water and then I think there was one that sounded crazy with lasers. Yeah. Laser scanning. What is that? Is that almost like lidar?

Peta 10:56

Yeah. Yeah. So the laser scanner is basically the, you've got the equipment that is picking up a, like a point cloud. It's just picking up millions and millions of pieces of data. And so it comes back to the computer. And you can also have the photos, they can take photos as well, so you can overload the photos on the point cloud data. And it basically gives you a 3D model of. Oh my gosh. A room or a building or, train lines, bridges, all different kinds of stuff depending on what it is that you're picking up floors, whatever. Yeah. To do the job in the field is quite easy. When you know what you're doing, how to set the equipment up, it's the. Processing at the other end, which is a little bit more complicated.

Alexis 11:41

Very cool. Yes, and I know if I had as access to this, I feel like I would take that home. Like I would have a 3D model of my home, like the next day to be like, where did the equipment go? Alexis would be like, I have no idea. Like it's my accident. Made it into my work truck. Oh, oops. Made it into my home. Yeah, like I modeled all my friends' houses too. Like I feel like I wouldn't go crazy with that.

Peta 12:05

It's, you need pretty powerful computers to be able to manage it as well, though. That's one of the difficult things. And, but yeah, there's lots of different types of the scanners as well. Depending on what you're trying to, what you're trying to achieve and with it, and the accuracies and that kind of stuff. There's handheld ones. There's ones that you slip over your shoulders and walk around with and, yeah. And then cool. The ones that are sitting up on your legs and. Yeah.

Alexis 12:30

Okay. One sounds like a ghostbuster one sounds like a little like pointin chip. Okay.

Peta 12:35

So that's the challenges, keeping up with that technology is a challenge as well. But going back to, what I mentioned earlier, that the challenge of being a non-traditional role for females Male dominated, whatever you wanna call it. As I said, it's come a long way for sure. The biases. Towards women out in the field or actually in the industry? It still happens. I still see it a lot. I try and call it out thing because, I've had 28 years, not that I've been in the field for 28 years, but there's other women that have been in the field for longer than I have as well, and quite capable and competent in doing the jobs, We might not be able to swing, a sledge hammer as well as they can, but we can still get the job done. We might not be able to cut through brush as quick as they can, but we can still do it. When I first started, I was cutting through brush and stuff, so it's not that we can't do it. And does every surveyor have to do that? No, they don't. So that's not the only type of job there is for surveyors. Accepting that it's a job that can be done by anybody. Yeah. Is competent in that type of work that understands what's required. Having females in the profession brings a different skillset to totally to, to the job as well. They talk about diversity, inclusion, all that kind of stuff. And it's more about having the different people, the ideas, the way they think, brings a better cohesive team together.

Alexis 14:09

I think that's a really important point. It's known to, if you look at all of the data and all of those, studies that they've done, that a higher diverse team will give a better output, right? You'll have better work no matter what you're doing. That point that you were talking about, that anyone could do this job and changing our mindset from only men only and men are the most capable within field. I think that's a really old stereotypical mindset. That's unfortunately within these industries. And you're like, no, I could do field work as well. But like you said, it's just gonna look a little bit different. At the end of the day, we're gonna have the same output. And I think that's a really. Important shift that we need to do.

Peta 14:49

No, well, you know, I was out in the field surveying until I was eight months pregnant or something. Wow. Oh my goodness. It's doable. I remember teaching some engineering students while I was, at TAFE as a teacher and I had some girls and they're carrying the equipment, a set of legs and an instrument, on, on it. And they're going, oh, this is too hard, it's too heavy, I can't do this. And I just turned around and I said, I don't ever wanna hear that again. There's all these people that are quite capable of doing it. If this is the job that you want, you're going to have to deal with this stuff. So don't think that you can't do it. Give it a try. Because they hadn't even really tried. I was doing it eight months pregnant, so don't tell me it can't be done. Yeah. Sort of thing. And they've sort of going, oh really? I went, yes. Really? Yeah. This is a job that you could do. And then, After that, man, they were out there giving it a go. So I love that. Yeah, sometimes you

Alexis 15:45

just need that kick and you just need that pointer to be like, no, you can't do this. Don't stop. You're more than capable. So I absolutely love that and I love that mentality. Doing research and doing background on you. One of the things that stood out was just your ability to be loud, and your ability to speak out in terms of injustices within this culture and within this industry. And I just wanted to say thank you because wow, I've struggled with that myself within this industry Could you speak to this decision to be loud? Is it something that just comes naturally?

Peta 16:17

It probably comes naturally to me in a sense that, I grew up as a tomboy. I've got an older brother. I grew up in a street of boys, so I've always had that, I followed my brother everywhere. I was the one girl in the street that had the long blonde hair down to her butt with a dress on, down to her ankles, climbing trees, riding, push bikes, riding skateboards. But whatever my brother did, I would be able to do. So I think growing up in that environment ha allowed me to, be confident. In myself in the sense that, if you give anything a go, go give anything a go, if you don't do well the first time you get up, you brush off and you go again. I think that's just me in the sense that, I quite often say what I think, in not trying to hurt anybody. But I think if I have something to say, then I'm gonna say it. Especially if it's gonna help somebody, help anybody. So that choice to speak up in the sense of social media now, it's, I find it, frustrating to see. People still bagging other people about what they're trying to do. If they put something on social media and they're really proud of what they've done, and then people just start, digging into them about not having the right shoes or the right equipment, or, it's a girl and she's wearing jeans or, and not wearing work pants or whatever it may be. Or just a girl with holding equipment or whatever. And people start to have a go and it's hang on a second. She's proud of what she's done. She's proud of where she's, she hasn't put anybody else down. She's putting herself out there. So why do you have to. Find the negative. It's only a good thing that we are promoting the industry, so don't sit there bagging it. So I'll call people out. Only in the last week there's been things about, people saying, oh, it's not a male dominant industry. And it's oh, well, factually it is a male dominated industry because that's what it has been since it started. There was two of us going through in 1995 in our course. I didn't work for with another female. I've only worked with one other female surveyor in 24 years. It was only my last job Wow. That I started working. So I went, I did a couple of jobs. I went to education. I went back out in the field as a project manager, senior surveyor. That's where I was managing female surveyors. There was Wow. Four or five in the company. That's the first time that I've worked with female surveyors in a company So percentages here in Australia are like registered surveyors, take up about three, three to 5% of registered surveyors within Yes. Across the world, we're looking at that less than 10%.

Alexis 19:09

that's really good that you have the 50 50 in like technical college, but it's also crazy that you are in. Your experience, you've been working as a surveyor and within the spatial industry for so long. That it took at the very end, your last job for you to be able to work with four or five. And it's wonderful that there was five women including yourself within that company, but that's still, that's

Peta 19:31

insane. You know, when I was teaching, there was one or two, females every year coming through the course, out of 70 sort of student.

Alexis 19:40

That's less than the

Peta 19:41

like 3%. Yeah, that's right. For that idea

Alexis 19:45

to be like, oh, it's not male dominated. You're like, what are you talking about? It's completely male

Peta 19:49

dominated. Yeah. You know it, but it's still a community perception as well. Because even my son's friends, they're group of friends with the girls and everything. If they were coming over and I'd be doing something and they're like, oh, what do you do? And I'll say, oh, I'm surveying, I'm a surveyor. And they're like, oh, so you go around and ask people questions? Oh, completely different. Yeah. Completely different. I'm like, no, no, no. Surveyor out in the field with, the one that people think is a camera on the side of the road kind of thing. And they're like, oh, one of those. And it's like, yeah, yeah. They go, oh, isn't that just a boy's job?

Alexis 20:26

Still to this day. Yes. It's just the like, complete framework of it.

Peta 20:30

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm trying to change that. This year, we had International Women's Day, so I put together a lunch for surveyors for female surveyors or anybody working in the industry. I was happy to have any females come along. Not that I wanna segregate because we need the males to help support us, but I really wanted to provide something where the. The women could network and get to know each other. Yeah. And a friend of mine, and I, spoke to her and she goes, yeah, yeah, I'll come and thought, yeah, okay. It's gonna be the two or three of us. And I ended up with 20, 21 or 22. Oh, people come. That's fantastic news. I love that. Most of them said, I've never been in a room with so many female survey, I've only one or two here or there that, they just thought it was amazing that they could actually get to meet other female surveyors and find that network and know that they, there was other people dealing with the same sort of issues or problems that they were going through as well.

Alexis 21:30

Maybe if they're not used to being the only woman within the room or the only woman within the industry. In mining, when I would go into mining camps, there was a camp of 500, there was probably 10 of us that were women. And even just seeing the nine other women, it made my day and we instantly would glob onto each other to be like, oh my goodness. Hello? Because it just, it meant so much to me to see another girl in my same position. And to see someone maybe a little bit older than me, or even just starting that I could mentor. Unless you're within that industry and unless you're in that position that you never see women and you never see anybody who looks like you within your industry and then you finally see someone. And you have this beautiful event with 21 people, I think I probably would've cried.

Peta 22:13

It was so nice to see everybody happy and that's fantastic getting something out of it that, getting something out of it is probably the biggest thing for me. Definitely International Women's Day next year is gonna be bigger and better for sure.

Alexis 22:24

That's amazing. And I can't wait to see how many people show up and I can't wait to hear more about it. One. Thing that I would like to dive into is a little bit more on this community side and on this like networking side is to ask you a couple questions about defining boundaries about your podcast. Could you talk to how this platform came to be, and then what has been one of the most rewarding parts of doing defining boundaries?

Peta 22:49

When I left my old job at tafe, I used to be the industry. I used to go to all the meetings. I used to go to a lot of conferences. I used to do, a lot of industry engagement. So when I left I lost that. And I used to listen to all the older surveyors tell their stories and I thought, not everybody gets to go to conferences. Not everybody gets to hear these stories, so why don't I try and do something like that and get their stories and. Have them there for everybody to listen to It started from there and I spoke to my now Boss, about it. And as I said, you had mentioned something about podcasts while I'm actually doing it. These are my points so far, these are the names. And she goes, oh no, no, no, you've gotta call it Defining boundaries. And I went, okay, that's pretty good actually. Yeah. That's fantastic. And so then I was also speaking to another one of my friends over in England. She was doing small interview things on, Instagram at the time, and she was interviewing me and she's ah, so I believe you're gonna be doing a podcast. When does it come out? And she put me on the spot. I'm like, oh my God, how could you do that to me? But no, it was the push that I needed to get it started and actually give a date and get it rolling and yeah, it's so great speaking to so many different people and not only in Australia, I've been speaking to people overseas as well. What they love about it, how they got into it, their points of view, how they trained, do all those different sorts of things. They're funny stories, the things that they struggle with, all that kind of stuff as well. It's a great, it's a great feeling to be able to get their stories and be able to put it out there to the world.

Alexis 24:29

I love that idea of passing on stories and that idea that not everyone can go to conferences and that kind of accessibility portion of it. I couldn't imagine how nervous you probably felt during that interview with your friend of being like, ah, fucker, I have to put a date to it. But I'm so happy that she gave you that push.

Peta 24:46

I always believe that, you've gotta step out your outside your comfort zone. That's one of the biggest things that I always say. Give it a go, step outside your comfort zone, give it a go. If you fail, it's okay. It doesn't matter because you get to try again. You learn something and you get to try again. Which one? I go back and listen to my first few interviews. I go, oh, cringe.

Alexis 25:08

I think that's kind of part of it, right? It's the same as your skateboarding to be like covered in scars. You're like, it's just part of it. Listen

Peta 25:15

and learn. Yeah, exactly. It's a passion that I love doing. And yeah, just getting to meet the people. Meeting people overseas and you've connected with me and Yes. Yeah. I call 'em my family. That there's a group of us that have, we've met through social media. But you just have those connections. I got to meet them last year when I went over to America and we all came to Vegas for a conference and it was like, oh my God. You feel like you know this person and you actually finally getting to meet for the first time sort of thing, but you just feel so comfortable and best friends that haven't seen each other for ages, so Totally.

Alexis 25:54

Something that's been like, unfortunately like the parent trap, Like it kind of has that same vibe of Yeah. Of getting to know someone online. I love that you were able to meet them in Vegas. Probably surreal that you're like, I can't believe this is the first time that we're actually meeting in person. Yes. I feel like I've known you forever.

Peta 26:10

But that also led me to being a co-host on another podcast as well. It's called The GICs, so it's another geospatial one, but there in America. Based out of Phoenix, Arizona. Yeah. I co-host on there occasionally. But no, defining Boundaries is my baby.

Alexis 26:27

It is so lovely to listen to it and to hear you meet all these people and you can hear that you love it so much, but Is there anything that has really surprised you doing it? Is there been something that you've learned about your industry that you're like, I had no idea that was part of geospatial and surveying.

Peta 26:43

They may say something you, that you go, oh, really? But in the big scheme of knowing about sumay and geospatial and everything, it, I haven't come up with anything that's really stumped me. Things that have surprised me. People talk about my episodes and, oh, this episode was great. And they start talking about what was in there and I go, okay, I can't really, I did the interview, we had a great conversation, but I haven't listened to it again and I've got no idea what we talked about. Yay. Like,

Alexis 27:10

past did that, like, I have no idea.

Peta 27:14

Yeah, no, sometimes I go back and listen to em. I'm like, oh yeah, someone said something and I'll go back and check them and stuff. But yeah. I love that

Alexis 27:21

no one stumped you. You're like, nah, I know my industry. Like I got it all.

Peta 27:25

Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's great speaking to people in the different things that they're doing. The technologies or the type of jobs that they've worked on and stuff like that. That would be, a bit of a surprise of going, oh wow, really? That's really cool. What they're doing with the technology and stuff like that, that I may not have worked with or, had anything to do with learning. That stuff is really great. But yeah, it's, yeah. You're always learning.

Alexis 27:50

I feel like that's the theme. I just speak on learning to do a nice segue to it is, just on researching you, you've just done so much good. One of the goods is that you've created this education course in surveying. Could you speak towards this course? Could you walk through how, what it is? How it works? Yes.

Peta 28:09

As you said, I'm the national training and development manager for Consulting Surveyors National. The ceo, Michelle Blitzer, who's a friend of mine that I knew who, she's the one who created the name Defining Boundaries. Love it. I met her when I was a teacher at tafe. I left, for very many reasons. I left, and while I was working in industry, again, I was competent. I could do the job, I was learning things, but realized that I wasn't overly happy in what I was doing, and realized that my job in life is to help other people and educate them and give them the tools that they need. And we knew that TAFE was having some issues and stuff like that, and there's a not a lot of campuses around that deliver it on a vocational level. People couldn't leave work to do training that lots of different reasons. So we had talked about it a long time ago and it came to a head one day where she came back to me and she said, okay, I think we're ready to do this. We need to put together a business plan of what we're gonna do, how we're gonna do it. And so I came through, we built this business plan, she took it to the board and they agreed that yes, this would be something that they should be able to invest in. So they employed me. So I was the first employee, full-time employee of Consulting Affairs National. I've worked to develop a program. That is a work-based program. So the people need to be working in industry. They learn the theory through myself or my teachers and they do all of their practical at work. They have a supervising surveyor who helps mentor them, guide them, point 'em in the right direction for whatever they need to do, ensure that they're doing the right things, ticking off that they're doing the different types of surveying, things like that. So the company is involved in that learning process. So instead of somebody going to a university or a TAFE or somewhere to learn it, and they leave the work, they do it work just goes, we've got a job that needs to be done, blah, blah, blah. Don't care about your, education. You do that in your own time. This is about bringing everybody together, bringing back the mentoring, bringing back everybody, being on the same page and supporting everybody. It makes for a better team. Inclusive. Everybody knows where everybody's at and. They come online one day a week. It's the same day every week that they need to come online so the company can actually program their work around it. Oh, course it's fantastic. So, jumping around. Yes. It's teacher led. So they have a teacher in front of them. They have somebody to talk to, somebody to explain what's going through. So the theory is really, real life examples, all of that kind of stuff that is happening. They're not just jumping online, watching a video, reading something, click, click, click, click, click. I'll do the quick assessment thing at the end. And that's their learning.

Alexis 31:17

It's very hands on, and a very practical to real life situation of what you would actually need in surveying.

Peta 31:23

Correct. And the benefit of doing it this way is that, We can deliver across Australia all at once. So I have students in Western Australia, Northern Territory, Queensland, a C t, and New South Wales, all online at the same time. Amazing.

Alexis 31:39

Fantastic. That's lovely that you also have work support. The fact that it's a work working program is wonderful to have that, scheduled within them. Cause I feel like it helps them that they have better education and more practical education. But it also helps a company as well, that they have a practical employee and that it's a consistent thing. So that's wonderful.

Peta 31:59

Very holistic in trying to include everybody and work with the companies, to try and ensure that, if you go somewhere and they say, you're doing some kind of education and it's you do this and this is how you do it There are different ways of doing things in different companies. There's different softwares. All these different things, different equipment. So it's like, okay, this is the foundation that you need. Now go and apply it to the equipment that you have. Amazing. Go and speak to the CAD people, the senior surveyors, whoever it may be. Get what you need out of them. Go and have a go at it. Go and practice it. Write a report on how it was done. And then we speak about it. The differences they do or what they do here, what they do at that different company. So they're learning with what they're, what they need. That's a

Alexis 32:47

fantastic program, and it's also a fantastic way to do their education because it's so personalized. Every single one of your students is probably gonna have a different answer, and then they get to have, in a weird way, they get to see their peers do something a little bit different and get access to all different aspects of surveying, maybe different like techniques, different equipment, different processes. That's wonderful.

Peta 33:09

Yeah, it, that's correct. It's really inclusive in the way that they're comfortable to share as well. Even though they're all sitting on a screen, I get them all to explain what they're doing. I get them all to talk. I ask them questions and we are talking about one thing and it's okay, I've got this example here. And they'll go, oh, we just did this. And then they'll bring it up on their screen and, we do it this way at work. And then the other one will go, oh, we do it this way. It's the biggest thing I say to them, that there's always gonna be a slightly different way of doing things. And not one of them is right or wrong. As long as you get to the end. Result of what's needed. Yeah. Completely.

Alexis 33:45

And again, that goes back to what we were talking about, like the difference, the idea of Fields work and field work's gonna little look a little bit different. Like every single time that you do a Yep. A job, it's gonna look a little bit different.

Peta 33:56

So I'm very proud. I'm very thankful that Consulting Surveyors gave me the opportunity to build it. The Surveys Academy hopefully will, we are filling a gap within the education within Australia at the moment. I'm pretty proud of it.

Alexis 34:10

You should be proud of it. How many students have, do you have this year and how many years have you been doing the program?

Peta 34:16

We started in September last year, so we are still working in the pilot program. So the way we work, we have a certificate, four level and a diploma level. So the diploma level's the higher level. So you go certificate four and then diploma, and then if you want to, you can go on to university later. I'm running a cert four and a diploma where I have, 22 students at the moment. Within the two courses, they're all paying full fees because we don't get any government subsidies. We're still trying to get government subsidies o over here, so they're paying full fees. But in saying that, I've got about 260 people on my waiting list. Wow. Wanting to do the course. Insane. That is, yeah.

Alexis 34:57

And 22 students is a lot of students, especially for just starting a program that's a lot of people to teach and to mentor. But yeah. Do How many did you say? 262.

Peta 35:07

About 260 on my waiting list. Yeah. Wow. Congratulations Peter. And I'm just about to start another course on, it'll be out by the time this comes online. Yes. I'll be starting another course where hopefully I'll have about another, 15 to 20 students in the one class in a certificate four.

Alexis 35:24

It'll be the same certificate for, it wouldn't be the same program. Wonderful. Yeah. Okay.

Peta 35:28

Because the pilot program, it's never been delivered this way. So my poor guys in the two courses are my Guinea pigs. So it doesn't always go to plan, but, I've reassured them that, they're helping build something really special. They're helping build the foundation of what. Other people coming through are going to be working with. So I'm always getting their feedback on what they need or how they feel it should be delivered and what needs to be changed and things like that. At the end of the day, we are working through it together. We'll solve the problems and you'll be learning the whole time.

Alexis 36:02

Couldn't imagine how fulfilling that is to do something so new and probably to also see growth within your students. And just to know that you're building something new and it's a new platform.

Peta 36:10

Yeah, yeah. Stressful. I don't have enough, I don't have enough hours in the day. Could we just clone me once or twice would be fantastic.

Alexis 36:19

Yeah, exactly. To be like my clone can do the second cohort of students that are about to start. Yeah.

Peta 36:25

Yep, yep, yep. And yeah, I I like to keep busy and I probably take on more things than I. Should do, two podcasts, building an ac, building an academy for the industry, for mom,

Alexis 36:39

everything. I could imagine. I feel like that's why you're good at what you do and that's probably why you're starting a platform. Because you're a busy lady. I have one last question. And it's one thing that I think came across in, when I was doing background information and researching you, but it came across in spades during this, conversation, which has been an absolute delight, is just your ability to be yourself, which sounds really simple, but within this industry and within a male dominated industry, or a non-traditional one. That's actually a really hard thing to do, is to be an authentic woman within this industry. So could you offer maybe some advice to young women who are just starting out, who may be facing a little bit of discrimination, who may be feeling uncomfortable and not feel like they can be their authentic selves? How can they, hone into your natural loudness and your natural ability to be your authentic self?

Peta 37:34

Oh, yeah. Some words of advice, wisdom, what, whatever you would like to call it. Believe in yourself. Don't ever think that you are not capable of doing the job that you've set out to do. As I said, you make mistakes. You learn from them and build on that. There's a few different things. Finding, Your support network, finding the people that can help you. It doesn't have to be a female. I haven't had female mentors. But finding the people that believe in you and support you and will back you and will help you learn, is probably a big thing. So stay true to yourself. Believe in yourself. Find that support system. You're going to have to be resilient in these types of jobs, okay? Not everybody is suited to a job in a male dominated industry because you're always going to have the unconscious bias. You're always gonna have the sexism. You're gonna have the snarky remarks. It's going to happen. So you either have to have a thick skin and be able to give back. And deal with it, in a way and also educate at the same time. Because that's what I'm trying to do at the moment. I'm trying to educate people Yeah. On the unconscious bias, on the sexism and how to manage it and having those peers back you and support you and step up for you.

Alexis 38:57

Yeah. People that are gonna help you with that battle Having male mentors or friends or someone that could back you, I think that there's just, there's such a power in there because they have the ability to have a lot of impact. So I think that's a wonderful advice is trying to find your people and trying to find people that can back you early on in your career.

Peta 39:15

Yeah. Back yourself, look for opportunities to grow. No matter what it is or you're always learning, don't think that you know everything. That's the biggest thing. No matter what in life, you're always learning, you talk about mentors and you're mentoring down will people, you are still learning from, even if you are mentoring somebody, you are still learning from them as well.

Alexis 39:35

Or learning how to be an okay mentor too. Right. To be like, I don't know, I've never done this before. They tell, they're gonna tell me feedback if I mess up and then I'll go from there. Yeah. I think that's a wonderful mindset?

Peta 39:46

Yeah. You're not perfect, so be yourself. Accept that, be yourself. be kind, be nice to people, we're all human. That's the biggest thing. I don't see myself as anybody different out there doing a job.

Alexis 39:59

I love it. I think that's a wonderful way to leave this episode. I think it's also a wonderful life advice, it's wonderful advice within this industry Peter, thank you so much. It was so lovely to meet you. And thank you so much for coming on to the show. I appreciate it immensely.

Peta 40:13

Thank you so much for having me on. I love doing this sort of stuff and getting the word out there and knowing and letting other people know that you're not in it alone. And that there are other people, no matter what industry or profession you're in. We're all going through struggles. We are all winning in certain ways, so let's share it and support each other. Yeah, I love that. So thank you so much for having me on.

Alexis 40:35

You're welcome. But thank you guys. Thank you for tuning in. We Are Amoco podcast and we will see you next week. Bye-bye.