Alexis 0:00

Hello. Hello everybody and welcome to the Smoko Podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your host. Nice to meet you. The Smoko Podcast is the place to celebrate and highlight women, trans women, and non-binary folk working within STEM and trade occupations. So please tune in, take a break, join us. We are on smoko today. We are extremely lucky to be joined by the lovely Katrina Alexandra, who you may recognize from the Instagram community and platform. Black women in construction. And so I cannot wait to talk to her today to all of her experience working within the construction industry, working within trades. We're gonna kind of talk all things construction, all things women in trades, and talk a little bit more about her platform and how it started and its mission cuz it's absolutely amazing. So Katrina, it is so nice to see you. Thank you for coming onto the show. It's fantastic to see you.

Catrina 0:49

Thank you for having me. This is a long time coming for us to link up, but yeah, thank you so much for having me

Alexis 0:54

on. Yeah, I'm excited. You're welcome. It is a, it definitely is a long time coming and, sorry, say it again?

Catrina 1:05

I said I'm excited for this interview now.

Alexis 1:11

I'm excited too. Katrina, I actually lost your video. I don't know what happened. Oh, no. Which is the worst for getting nothing but bad luck for technology. Yeah.

Catrina 1:21

Okay, then didn't work. Now I turned it off into return again.

Alexis 1:26

Are you serious'? A black screen. Oh, I

Catrina 1:29

know. This is like absolutely. Next level. We Oh brother.

Alexis 1:35

We can do just audio.

Catrina 1:38

No, we're gonna do, we're gonna make it work. And we logged in. Oh, it's really just a black screen. Okay. That's crazy.

Alexis 1:51

It's just a blast. Oh no, you came back. You came back. Okay. No, you came back, Katrina. Just stay here. You got it. You came back. It's working. We're gonna, we're

Catrina 2:02

technology. We're that. What's going?

Alexis 2:11

Yeah, exactly. We are gonna make this fricking work Well. It is so nice to see you. Thank you for coming onto this show. I really appreciate it. I was wondering if we could maybe start at the very beginning and if we could talk about the story of how you discovered and became aware of the construction industry. Cuz I'm sure that you didn't really grow up knowing that like this is what you were gonna do. So how did that happen? How was the story of how you fell in love with this industry?

Catrina 2:35

Construction happened actually by accident cuz my goal in my life was like, All right, I'm gonna get money and I'm gonna just build like different orphanages or different like places for kids and stuff. I don't know where that even came from, cuz in my, you know, when you play as a kid, I always was like, teacher. So I was like, okay, I could do this. And then I was like, all right, I'm gonna become a teacher. And I was like, it's gonna take forever to get my goals accomplished on a teacher salary, so let's not do that. So I actually went to talk to an advisor in my school and he was like, you can go to work for construction. It's hella easy. I'm like, what? So it was really through there, through through trial and error. Basically are really just figuring out something ain't work for me, that I got into construction, but I feel like I've always been had a knack for building stuff or just working. Cuz even as a kid, I took mechanical drawing classes and like one of the group projects, the final Oh, amazing project, everybody left. So I had to do it by myself and I had to build like a makeshift Ferris wheel and I was like, Damnit, I'm smart. I could do this. So that's really how I got into it. I, yeah.

Alexis 3:38

So right now, oh my goodness, I love that. I love that. Like

Catrina 3:41

self-talk. Yeah. Like I could do this. Cause you know, when you see a blueprint and you've never seen a blueprint before, you're like, this is difficult as hell. How do people even understand it? But When you really just sit down and break it, you realize you're limitless. You can really understand construction. It's not hard. It's difficult,

Alexis 3:59

difficult people. No, it isn't. And like I like that. Yeah. Okay. I like that kind of mindset and I like that idea that you like break it down because it does look really like daunting when you see like a huge blueprint and you see it on like a macro level, right? That you're like, oh my goodness, this is crazy. And like, can I do this? But I love that as a kid that you're like, no, I got this. Like I'm smart. I can figure it out. Like this is, yeah, yeah. This is what I'm gonna do. And I think like that was also very good guidance of being like, yeah, if you want financial freedom early on in your career at like. 1918. The construction industry and trades in general are a wonderful way to get that. Like there's not many jobs that you can walk in at 19 and be like, yeah, I can make a good, decent salary and support myself. Like, it's, it's very powerful. But I don't think a lot of people know that.

Catrina 4:46

Yeah, but because the fact too that you're getting dirty, people just think, oh, I'm gonna be dirty all day. But there's different, there's, there's accountants in construction, there's quality control and construction. Mm-hmm. So people don't have to necessarily think, well, I'm gonna be dirty. You know, it's like nature. Oh, I don't wanna get dirty and sweaty, but, Sometimes there's people right now who are electricians who are debt free versus college kids. You know what I mean? They're debt free, they want old school loans. They're living. Yeah. I was like, I wanna be a part of that group. The debt free group. That's what I want to be a part of. Yeah,

Alexis 5:19

a hundred percent. I mean, like we used to get, as a geologist, I would always get razzed by the, the minors that they would like come and drop off the corn and they'd be like, how much debt do you have? Cuz I got none. And you're like, okay, well, like, thanks Tom. Like well just drop off the material, like get outta here. Like why are being so rude about it. But it was. It's definitely like there's a couple industries and I think construction is so wonderful that you can be debt free so early on and like I love that you said that there's multiple options in construction. It's not just what you see. People on the street we're like getting dirty. There's so many different avenues of it and. Maybe that'll bring us to kind of like the next one, cuz people have this idea of construction looking a certain way and only looking one way. Could you kind of walk through what you do? What's a day-to-day look like for you? What's typical day? What's your roles and responsibilities? A whole bit for me. Well,

Catrina 6:11

currently. I say currently, cuz you know how construction is next. One week you'll do this. Next week you'll do that? Yeah. Currently I do electrical inspection, electrical, coordination. So like for me, my day starts, I'll get a few projects to look through. I have to look through all the plans. I have to make sure everything matches on site. And I go to the site and I have to meet with the inspectors and just break it down so they understand the product and we can pass the inspection. And then I pretty much start the same thing again the next day. Deal with the building department, dealing with like paperwork costs, assessments. Like, there's so many different levels of stuff you do during the day. With construction, you don't even realize it. You know, one minute you're, you're an architect, one minute you're working construction. One minute you're quality control. One minute you're accountant cuz someone didn't pay a bill and you're like, wait, time out. I'm not gonna keep working if I don't get paid. Yeah. So it's like a diversified day. But right now my, my core responsibilities are doing electrical inspections and just making sure everything matches the plan, set what my responses do tomorrow. We'll see. I don't know.

Alexis 7:15

Something completely different. Yeah, exactly. Cause it's like, I think the thing about construction is it seems really dynamic. Like it seems like it's constantly moving. There's so many sub benders, there's a lot of things going on. There's always things that are kind of going wrong too, right? Like things take too, there's longer fire budget or you have to go talk to somebody like it seems. Yeah. It seems hectic all the time, which is super fun, but it does seem very stressful, changeable, like it doesn't seem like every single day is the same.

Catrina 7:44

A hundred percent. You're right. It's very, I can imagine changeable is the word you use, but stressful is the word too. Like with construction, people don't realize there's always something quote unquote on fire, as they say. There's always something to do because in the day it's a time scheduled thing, you know what I mean? Construction works well for people who are good at multitasking or good for people who are like, Okay, I'm doing this today, but can I learn I'm all the process. That's the one good part about construction. Like, yeah, I'm doing electrical inspections today, but two days ago I was learning how to run conduit wire just to make sure that it's sufficient. You know what I mean? It's a, it's a learning process. That's the best part about construction, obviously. Yeah, it's a learning. It's definitely a learning game that's honest, but it's worth it. Mm.

Alexis 8:28

I love that. Like, I, I asked my next question was really like, what was your favorite part of your job? But I feel like that might have been the answer of like, it's that you're always kinda learning something and, and, and changing. Yeah. That's part of, is there a favorite thing that you've learned so far? Yeah. Go. There's another part that would be amazing.

Catrina 8:48

The, the part that's always changing and learning. That's the best part so far. I would also say just the opportunities. Cause like right now my job, like I said, is electrical inspections. However, I'm studying to take the building inspector test so I can be a building inspector for the state. So like it allows me to grow, you know what I mean? Oh, cool. And like I feel with construction, you don't have to be stuck to one thing all your life. You know? Like if you're a teacher, you're a teacher. That's the rest. For 45 years, at least, construction, I'll be like, all right, I did this, I did this, I did this. I like to, divers diversified, like, you know what I mean? The options, I would say is the best part.

Alexis 9:23

That's very cool. What is the kind of process for becoming a building inspector? Like what does that look like? Do you have to do a bunch of school? Do you have to do a bunch of hours? How does that work? That's fantastic by the way. Congratulations. Oh, thank you. It's amazing.

Catrina 9:35

Well, you have to for the, depending on the state, for example, for my state, I have to have documentation that I've worked in constructive for five years. Maybe like W two s. You need to get affidavit maybe from your CPA just to prove that you're really about it. And then you can make you take a test to, there's a test that you have to take. Test is like $300. That's how they get you one. You have to take a couple tests and each test is like 300. Yeah, I, I know the price cuz I was pissed cuz the other day I failed it by two points and it wasn't even a points thing, it was a time thing. I was so,

Alexis 10:08

oh my God, that's so annoying. I would've been pissed too.

Catrina 10:12

Oh yeah. But that's my mistake. That's life, I guess. Right? You got paid to not make Yeah,

Alexis 10:18

it happens. Yeah. Yeah, you won't make it again, like you're gonna pass it the second time. Right? That's the thing. Of course,

Catrina 10:25

now for 300, I'm definitely gonna pass now, but Yeah. Yeah. So like, after you take the test, you have to just go to your note, your state ordinance and just show doc documentation. Like I have to get an affidavit from different people. I have to get like, mm. A credible assessment, like, you know, basically like a recommendation letter, you know, because in the day as a building inspector mm-hmm. You're liable for stuff that are getting inspected in people's homes and just in people's, you know, every day. So you're more liable. But it's worth it though. Hopefully it's worth it. We'll see. Cross my fingers.

Alexis 11:00

I think it'll be worth it. No, I think it will be. I think that's amazing and I think that's really cool that you can keep going and you can go to the kind of like the next step one kind of like follow up or maybe I just don't understand it. When you're getting these positions and kind of these certifications, can you do all construction? Is there a certain type of construction? Are you basically like for any building that's created within the state?

Catrina 11:22

They have different ones. Like there's building inspectors, electrical inspectors, plumbing inspectors. Each one. It's all based on time. So like even for the building inspector, I had to prove that I worked there for five years in construction. Okay. So electrical inspector, you have to prove you worked five years in electrical. And it all depends. There's different, okay. There's like different categories for each one. Fire building, electrical, and building Cool itself. So you have to just pass the test. Yeah. And they make you take, go to school. Cause I had to go to school too for this course. Definitely forgot about that. And we can take a little course. Okay. Yeah.

Alexis 11:56

Oh, very cool. A little course to do it. Okay. That's fantastic though. And like, congrats. I hope you're gonna, you are gonna get it definitely the second time. I'm sorry that you have to take it the second time. That's no way crossed pain to the butt, but I, I know you got it. Yeah, but I'm really just learning from, on the flip side, I

Catrina 12:13

said I'm learning from my mistakes. Say that again. I'm learning from my mistakes. Yeah. That's the one thing this test is even construction is teaching me, is to learn from your mistakes.

Alexis 12:23

No, that's a good advice note in general, and like anything in life is like to learn from your mistakes. I feel like I've gotten things so wrong so many times and that's what I always remember. I don't remember when I get it right, but I remember to be like, yeah, you like completely messed up the lab or you like sanded something and all of your equipment broke. Like never do that ever again. Like it was a pain in the butt. Exactly,

Catrina 12:43

yes. It was a pain in the butt just to admit I make a mistake. That's the worst part.

Alexis 12:50

Yeah, that's fair too. I, I'm like that too. I feel like that's kind of, that can be a human nature part of it on, Katrina, on the flip side, like that's one part of like why you love it so much that it's like changeable. Yes, it's a little bit stressful, but it's really dynamic. You can do so much. There's so many opportunities for growth. What's something that's on the opposite side of that? What's something that's challenging about your job or your industry?

Catrina 13:13

So I guess sometimes being the only woman, especially the only black woman on site, at times, the most challenging thing is you'll go on site. Like there's been, like one of my past jobs before was a project manager. So then like I'd be on site and then the people would ask, oh, who's in charge? I'm like, me. They'd be like, Who, so literally I would spin, do a 360. I'm like, me, I'm in charge. That's who it is. Like that's who it's, or like currently, even sometimes I'll get asked questions that they know the answer to already, just to double check to see if I know it. And you know, you just have to look like, are you testing me? Like, is that where, hi. Yeah, you

Alexis 13:51

know. Yeah, you have to like challenge them, but it's also such an annoying position to be put into that you're like, come on. Like, excuse, excuse you, that really, I just wanna do my job. Yeah. Like I, but I don't deal with it to the same extent. Like I, I, I don't know. It would be different. And it's different being, I can't imagine being a woman of color in, in STEM or in traits because there's already like two women and they're mostly white women, right? Like it is predominantly white. I think the construction industry and also the geology industry or mining. Which is kind of my background, but it's, I can't imagine that. I love the power move of the spin, but it's annoying that you have to do it, and it's annoying that you have to have that, like, yes, I'm in charge and I, I understand I'm capable. I know what I'm doing. I, I have all of this experience, I've all of these certifications. Like, why don't you just listen to that? Super

Catrina 14:41

annoyed. But even still to this day, like even when I go on site sometimes, they're like, what are you doing here? And they're like, I don't expect to see you. I heard that today. Like, I didn't expect to see you when I just asked the guy. Really? What does that mean? And he was like, yeah. He just thought he was like a deer. He was like, you know, a lady inspector. I was like, okay. Sure.

Alexis 15:02

Okay. That's what that means. Cool. Thanks. Yeah, thanks buddy. Like all Well, I like that you challenge 'em too because I do think like that is one of the only ways that you can get through it of just calling them on it to be like, what did you mean by that? Or like, yeah, I don't understand it. Like I don't understand your joke. Like that's the only thing. I don't get it. When you play. Yeah, exactly. Like I used to kind of push it to just like if someone didn't. Think that I knew something, I would just pretend like I didn't know it and I would play dumb and I would kind of just like see how far they could go. And I had one guy, who knew I was a geologist, knew who I was, a scientist, and he explained to me the concept of rain, like the rain from the, the sky. And I just pretended. Yeah. Cuz I kept start going. I just pretended like I had never heard of rain before. And it got to a point that he was like, this is. How do you not know Rain? And I was like, how do you believe that? I don't know, rain. Like what? What type of list is that? I don't know. And maybe that's probably why I am guessing that's why that you started your platform, black Women in construction is probably because you were sick and tired of being the only women and construction. Could you kind of like walk through how your platform came to be, how you did like started this platform and started this organization? How'd that happen? Well, a few

Catrina 16:18

years ago I was looking for a job and I'm like, This is crazy. I can't find a job. All these places say they're hiring, but none of 'em are taking my resume. I literally got to the point where I was driving and I would pass the construction site and I would just drop off my resume, try to talk to gc, and it was a struggle, and I'm like, I can't be the only person. And then other GC was like, oh, go contact this other lady. She might hire you. But the lady was like, yeah, I can't hire you because then you'll take away from my food. I'm like, what? We're all here to eat. You know what I mean? We're all here. Yeah. She said she didn't want too many women on her sh on her crew, because then she wouldn't get as many gigs. I'm like, but you're a woman who's in charge, isn't it? Your.

Alexis 17:00

Do? What do you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So she was gate keeping. I

Catrina 17:04

was like, yes. And that made me so pissed. I'm not gonna lie to you. After I left that meeting, yeah. I was so pissed. Cause I was like, how could someone be so mean? But then I realized it's not even her being mean. Maybe it's her being scared. You know what I mean? Scared for what? Can be taken from her. So, but, or scared. I don't know what scared her girls? I don't know what she was scared of. So, Yeah. Scared

Alexis 17:25

the same thing, but it's still ridiculous. I would've been the same thing. I would've been pissed off if someone had told me that.

Catrina 17:31

Yeah. And I was just like, I just want a job. And I'm like, I have skillset. I have lots of experience. Like I have more experience than people I know who are getting jobs. I'm like, what am I doing wrong? Like, you know, I'm like, maybe I'm not doing wrong, maybe I'm just talking to the wrong people, you know? So that's why I started the platform. Cause I was like, you know, I can't be the only person who's dealing with this. I can't be the only person who's been. Struggling to find a job, struggling to find people like them who are interested in construction or interested in growth. So that's why I started the platform. And from there it's really just blue. So I, you know, I have it on LinkedIn, Facebook, and I actually got a trademark. Yeah. So like the hashtag black women

Alexis 18:08

construction and this. Oh, that's amazing.

Catrina 18:10

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, that was very exciting. That fantastic. Yeah, I was trademarked, so it's like I, right now I'm just really laying the foundation now, so like later. I really just wanna help everybody cuz I knew what it's like. I know what it's like to have skillset. I know what it's like to be talented and no one to listen to you. I know what it's like to wanna speak and no one's, everybody's putting you on me. Mm-hmm. Cause they're so busy with their own world. Yeah. So like with the platform, like that's why I post jobs all the time. I, I have black women in construction. I also have a second page jobs in construction. So like I share jobs daily, I share sponsorships. People have gotten deals with Duluth off my page. People have gotten, been on reality TV shows from the stuff I've posted from construction things.

Alexis 18:55

Oh my goodness. Yeah. So like That's amazing.

Catrina 18:58

That's cool. Yeah, it's had its ups and downs. It had some downs. I'm not gonna lie, cuz sometimes it's frustrating mm-hmm. To give so much knowledge and people don't appreciate it. You know what I mean? That's, it's frustrating. I'm not gonna lie. Mm-hmm. Or it's frustrating when a company pick me up and they'll be like, Yeah, we paid another page to promote this, but we're gonna give, can you do it for free for us? I'm like, I'm a business just like anybody else's business. I file taxes. Like, no, we're not gonna do it for free. And you're gonna like, I've had people from big corporations and TV shows like H G T V type brands who told me, we love you, but you don't fit the idea of what we think construction is. So I'm like, Wait, so you love me, but you don't love me, so it's like, yes. Yeah, exactly. Is that the

Alexis 19:43

thing based? Exactly. What do you mean again? What do you mean again? What do you mean by that? Like, explain, explain to yourself, like what does that actually mean? Inion production company told me, oh, that's

Catrina 19:53

terrible. Yeah. The production company told me, we love your pants. We follow you consistently. I'm like, how did you even find the pictures? Like one of our workers told us about it. However, We don't really like it fully. We can't really promote that. I'm like, so why don't you even contact me? Cause they're contacting.

Alexis 20:09

Yeah. That's just a waste of my time.

Catrina 20:10

Exactly. Like, don't tell me I'm good, but not good enough. And that's even the part with like the whole page premise. Like I'm tired of people telling you you're good but not good enough. Like, no, I'm good. I'm enough. Like I want people to just embody that from visiting our page. Like, you are enough for any job you're applying for. And trust me, there's some guy somewhere or someone somewhere. A G E D applying for a job that you're afraid to apply to should just apply. You know, my goal was to hold page, just to take the fear or the scariness outta construction for people to make it more of a viable, you know, opportunity for people. Cause let's be for real, AI is taking a lot of jobs, especially customer service jobs and stuff like that. But you could do customer service and construction, like, you know, everybody still seems to be fluid in construction. So I just want people to be more aware of opportunities they have.

Alexis 21:01

No, I love it. I I absolutely love your page because I do think, like you just mentioned it or you just like summed it up perfectly of trying to take away the fear from construction. And you can see that in your page, like it's super accessible. There's so many resources, like it's all of a sudden kind of shining a light on construction, on the jobs that are available, who's available, who you can talk to, what that looks like. It's it basically almost from someone on the outside. My interpretation of it is that it reminded me a little bit almost of like a union board or like a union post board that I was like, I feel like this is so much information and it's readily accessible for somebody who maybe isn't in that industry yet. Right. And like I love that mindset shift of being like, no, like you, you can do it. You're good enough, like you're not, you can get that job, you're capable of it. And like if you maybe don't have the skills yet, this is all the resources where you can get those skills and this is how you can apply it in construction and this is who to talk to. Like it's very powerful. It's wonderful that it's online. It's wonderful that it's like free access and I'm sure you've probably had a lot of like amazing, I'm sorry to hear that. You've had some brands that have come out that you're like, excuse you, what do you actually mean about that? And be a little bit rude, but I hope that. And I know probably that you've had a lot of people reach out and been like, this is fantastic, and like, you changed my life. I'm sure that's

Catrina 22:20

happened. That's what I'm saying, like there's a lot of ups like that part, especially like people's d dme. Like, thank you so much, you don't even realize the post you did for a job. Help me get a job. All the struggling, you know, be the days like you wanna quit and someone will send you a message like, thank you so much, I appreciated that. And those be like that little spark, you know what I mean? That little spark in your charge, you're like, okay. It was worth it. Cuz sometimes, you know, especially you understand with social media and stuff, it's draining. It's very, I can't answer every question mm-hmm. At once, but I can always do my best to just try to be present for people, you know? Because even with the topics we cover on my page, we cover tapping taboo topics. We even covered how do you handle having your menstrual cycle? Being on site. You know you work in mining. I know they don't have different female porta potties than male. No,

Alexis 23:07

can't do not. No. That's a huge issue. Yes. Yeah. But it's good. It's good you're having that

Catrina 23:13

because it's like conversations that you be afraid to talk about on site. We're talking about it like, okay, how do you feel about it? And like even if you read that post with the responses, people's responses were wild. I was like, oh my God, it's wild by West over there. But thank you for sharing this. Wild worlds. Yeah. You know, working on site is different for women. You gotta have like your handy dandy book bag full of supplies full of filling products, lotion, face wipes, you know, like it's different. Being a woman on site, it is different. Right.

Alexis 23:50

Oh, totally. And like it's just so nice because like, yes, it might be like a taboo topic or it might seem a little bit wild, but like it's so important and it's so real and that's why people resonate with it. Because like being one of the only girls on site, you're like, okay, well I have no one to talk to about this, but like, I probably do need to talk to somebody because like, what do I do in this situation? I have no idea. Or like that. Super embarrassing thing just happened that I, there was no place to pee, so I peed, but then a mi a minor saw me and like, I kind of would like to vent it about it, you know what I mean? Like it's, yeah, it's these kind of situations that don't happen and you don't really have that space to talk about it. So it seems taboo, but like it's amazing that your platform exists, that women finally have that opportunity to reach across like a virtual community and like find more women who are working in a, a site very similar to them. Katrina. I was wondering, could you maybe talk about, cuz I know that you probably have big plans like this year, even though it's draining with social media. I'm sure you have stuff on the way. I was wondering if you could kind of talk to what you're working on right now, if there's anything in particular or anything that you're moving towards for black women in construction.

Catrina 24:55

Well, I'm moving for, hopefully this year is, or beginning of next year, is to have like a group made up in different cities and towns. You know what I mean? Just to make a collective, to meet people in an area. The thing is, it's just really me running it right now. I know a lot of different things that have their stuff. They have like a team. It's not a team, it's just me. It's just your girl me every day. So I just, you know, so I wanna be present for people more so, and I also wanna be able to just maybe have, Like a more structured website where I have resource connecting. So like say you are a black woman in construction who's hiring, you could send me a message and I could post it, you know, and I could send out in a mass email. I wanna be able to take out the, my goal this year is just to take out the, how do I say the space. Cause you know, everything's virtual. It's like sometimes I really want people to feel like they can reach out and touch the page or just. Find someone direct. So my goal for this year is to be more on different platforms like this lovely podcast. Yes. Not be afraid to do you know, interviews. Cause you know my schedule is sometimes so crazy from my nine to five. Mm-hmm. Or my eight to eight. Really? Like my outweigh my hours work. Yeah. That I have to like a lot more time for my business. My goal for this year is to a lot more structured time for my business. So then that I allow people to have more time for their business, you know?

Alexis 26:12

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's amazing. I love that. And I like kind of that like human nature part. I love the big picture of like potentially having things in different cities and I hope you get there, but it is hard if it's just you, right? Like you are gonna have to kind of start virtual and it's, I like that goal of like more structured time and like more. More time on the website where you can kind of like reach out and like and talk to people. I think like that human aspect, but I think that you already kind of do that. Like my favorite part of your page. I mean, I like all of it. I like the mission. I like what it stands for, but like what I love the most is your weekly Instagram lives where you ask the community questions and then you post topics because it's something completely different that I don't really have access to on my day to day. pH geologist. I was wondering, do you have like a favorite topic? Do you have a favorite theme? Like is there anything that you're like super passionate about? Where do those topics come from? The whole

Catrina 27:03

bit? The topics, it really depends on the person. Like for instance, my last interview live, I had a lovely person, GA, Gabriel. She, me, Gabriela Sailor, she's like the president of her electrical union in her area. She's, she's very well diverse in her trade and her skillset and I. We were talking electrical construction stuff. Then we started getting to the nitty gritty of life. You know, I was asking her, you might have seen the last part. I was like, how is it dating in construction? And she told the truth, like, it's hard being a woman dating in construction cause you make money, you're not a dummy. So you already know. People gonna look like, oh god, you know? You know. So it's like even when she said on the last line, she was like, Something she said that resonated but was hilarious. She's like, after working on site with guys, you lowkey kind of hate guys. Not in a lesbian way, but a hundred percent. Cause they're freaking frustrated and you realize like, we know men, but we don't really know men until you work on site with men and you look crusty and bummy, so they don't care anymore. So they're saying everything around you. You really don't know, man. Like we really don't. Yeah. And it's just, I just love how for my lives, I'm able to mix people's experiences to make it relatable for people. I wouldn't even say I have a favorite life cause I've had so many, like I've had brother and sister who own roofing company. I've had a master electrician. I've had someone who's a pain, and I've had people from Africa and Nigeria and Ghana talking a lot. So Cool. So yeah, I wouldn't say I have even Australia too, you know, so I wouldn't say I have a favorite line. But if anything, I do appreciate from them live. I appreciate people's authenticity. You know what I mean? Just being honest. Mm. Because, you know, let's be for real. When you're on site, you can't really express when you're pissed off. Cuz then you don't wanna be the No, the mad woman or the, the bitchy woman. Let's be for real. You don't wanna be labeled the bitch on site. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you wanna be No, you can't. You don't.

Alexis 28:54

You can't. Yes. Yeah. You're like, you can't, you really, like, you have to bite your tongue. Yeah. Yeah. I like. I think I eventually, I think I got labeled like scary twice and part of me was like, oh no, that's like, I was like, that's like the kiss of death. But part of me was also so proud that I was like, yeah, I am scary cuz you've been pissing me off. Like you've been breaking everything and you've been like a thorn in my side all day. Like, I wanted to cuss you out. I wanted to cuss you out way more than this. But like all I did was give you like one glare. Yes, I was polite to you. And so like, it, it is really refreshing to have those, I think that's probably why people resonate or why I resonate to them, is that they're so re like relatable and you can just picture what that woman or what that person has gone through that you're like, yep, that's happened to me. And again, we don't really have these spaces to be like, yeah. Cause that's, that's, it's really cool that you've had.

Catrina 29:48

On site if you say something wrong, like if you say something against the norm, everybody, you gonna be talking to town and men gossip more than women. Let's be for real. So you know how it is on site. They do.

Alexis 29:59

Yes, it's wild. It blew me away the first time that I got onto a boat that I was like, what did crack me up is I worked on a deep sea drilling vessel for, for years, and they were mostly from Texas. Like a large people, a large amount of people were from Texas. I'm from Canada. I never met somebody from Texas. Like I didn't know the accent. I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, but like what was crazy about it? I did, but like these guys that were from Texas, they had these crazy accents and they couldn't whisper at all. Like, I don't know what was about them. They were like country kids. They could not whisper to save their life. So you would walk in and you could hear your name being like, spoken to be like, oh yeah, that's the new girl from Canada. And you're like, yeah, hello. Like, I can hear you. I'm across the room, but like if you're gonna gossip, at least be better at it. Like what? What was that whisper? It blew my mind. I was

Catrina 30:50

like, this, this is so ridiculous. What does she do? And then you'll hear the other question. Yeah. She worried what's, what's the status? What's, what's she going on? You know?

Alexis 30:59

Yes. Instantly. Like that's like the one-two punch of like, who is she? Where is she from? What's going on? Is she single? Like that is the progression of being a woman on site. Whenever

Catrina 31:09

you wanna feel hot, go to construction site with a little bit of makeup, a little bit, not much. Little booster confidence. I be like, you know what, I'm not, I'm cute. Like,

Alexis 31:22

And then almost like, you almost want it to be brought down. You know what I mean? Like that's at least my experience. Like I did it once, so then I was like, oh no, never again. You know what? It too much, too much. It was, it was too much. I was like, this is my limit. Like, I don't, I don't wanna wear makeup on site. Like that is something like, I would love to, to be able to express myself, but like, nope. Too much attention. Not for me. Like I am a very, I'm an introverted person kind of at. At my core. Oh. And so I was like, this is just too much attention. And like maybe that's one point too that I'd like, I'd wanna talk about, because sometimes on your platform you talk about like being authentic and like ha, being your authentic person and having real conversations and like having real presentation at a workplace, which sounds simple. It sounds to be like, oh yeah, dress like yourself at work. But like in our industries, You kind of can't, like any advice to someone who's going through that, who's going through maybe that like confidence or that attention spike and they don't really know how to still stay true to like how they dress and how they act, in these industries at

Catrina 32:22

site. Like you said earlier, Being a woman on site has its good pros and cons. When you're too pretty, sometimes you don't get listened to. Mm-hmm. When you're too ugly, they treat you like the guy, so then you just, you don't get No. So it's like a medium. I think personally, people just have to find what works for them. Like, you know what I mean? If you're like, sometimes I'll have acrylic nails and stuff, but when I do have nails, I realized I wear gloves all the time on site. Cuz I don't want people to think, she is girly, girly. She's not gonna pick up the tools, she's not gonna do this. So it's like, It's horrible to say. But it's like you really have to just settle with like the most middle version of yourself. You know what I mean? The most bland, ver I know it's, it's horrible to say it out loud, but it's like you just have to bring the basic, cuz then, like you said earlier, if you wear makeup on site, you might become a distraction, which really isn't your fault. It's not your fault, it's genetic. No. Like I look good, but when you wear makeup, it's too much, you know? So it's like you just have to be your authentic self. I just realize sometimes maybe you just have to be your authentic self without makeup, without the glare, without just, just being present is you enough. Is enough. You know, just being present. Yeah. And if you are someone who wears long nails and does that, do it. Do what makes you feel comfortable, but just make sure you're at a place where you can be comfortable, you know? It's okay to be your authentic self, but if you're not in the work, right. Work right. Excuse me. The right work environment, it's hard to be your authentic self. Yes. You just have to pick the right work environment, you know?

Alexis 33:52

I, I agree. I kind of agree more like it's, you almost don't want tell to tell people that advice because you don't wanna ever be like, I would never stand behind to be like, yes, be your like middle self or like, don't be your true self or like limit yourself in a way. But I think like what she brought back, I think is the kind of caveat and the important part of it is like, Only be yourself. If you're in a work environment that's conducive to it, that you can be it, that it's safe to be so that you're not gonna be in any danger, you're not gonna be discriminated, you're not gonna kinda lose any validity in your work. And you're in a position that you actually can be yourself. That you're supported by your community and you're supported by your mentors. And then go for it. Be whoever you are and like have that presentation. But it's a very hard, it's a hard line to walk, I think. Like it cha, I don't know about you, but it changed. With me, with my age, when I first got in, I really did not feel comfortable kind of dressing how I would dress at home, and I dressed in super baggy clothes and I made sure that no one could tell that I was a girl. You know what I mean? Like every single part of my, I was in winter in Canada, so that helped, but like every single part of my body was covered except my eyes. And even then I'd be like, no one should know that I'm a girl. I like made my voice deeper, you know? I'm like, how are you? Be like, hi, I'm fine. I'm Alex. Nice to meet you. Like it was ridiculous. But like that was like, that was the level that I went to. And then it was, it wasn't until I got a little bit older that I got a little bit more comfortable with myself that I started being more authentic at work. But it is a hide line. It's a weird line and I do like your kinda caveat point of being like, only do it if you're comfortable and only do it if you can't do it.

Catrina 35:29

And, but in the day, don't deny yourself that you start having like, what's it called? Imposter syndrome. Yeah. Or you just feel depressed from being there. You're not yourself. Never. Yeah. Put yourself to a point where your mental health is struggling. You know what I mean? Yeah. You could find another job. You are not a tree you could leave. Okay. Yeah. Not feel stuck like, you know what I mean? Just find someone that makes you happy. And then even with construction or any trade, it's trial and error. You'll get a job today and you might work there three days and be like, these people are horrible. Finding another stuff that's not

Alexis 36:00

for me, you know? Yeah,

Catrina 36:02

exactly. Like you said, it's like when you, I was younger, it was. It was real different. I did that too. So I used to have the full suit on and the, yeah, just the eyes. And even with the eyes, I put no mascara, nothing. And I wear like my ugly glasses, so they don't ask me questions. They're like, oh yeah. But it's like after a while you're like, you don't wanna take it or leave it. I'm not switching up. Or even as a black person or black people, we have to do code switching sometimes, which is like the way I talk to a black coworker would never be the same the way I talk to a white coworker and stuff, because I feel as though they wouldn't understand nuances and they wouldn't understand conversations. But then I realize just be yourself, like, you know what I mean? If this is something you're gonna say 24 7, it's hard to code switch like working in different fields. It's your name. It's draining. You're like, what did I say? Yeah, what did it sound right? You know, just be yourself. Cause after a while it'll be draining trying to be someone else or just trying to live up to someone's standards. You'll become depressed. Cuz construction people don't talk about, a lot of people construction, commit suicide, you know? Yeah. Because of the stress or the, the imposter syndrome, or just feeling like you're not good enough. Because in construction things are moving so fast. You don't get the pat on your back saying You did a good job. You don't get the praise, don't get nothing. No, really, let's be for real. Just be like, okay, job closed. Next job. And you know, people don't realize happy people commit suicide all the time. Anthony Bourdine. Was a millionaire traveling the world. He still committed suicide because, you know, something inside was not registering. So like even with construction, I'll post the, what is it, the eight 11 number all the time. For people who have mental health, who wanna call the network, cause suicide is real. And sometimes you gotta pick a profession that allows you to be yourself, where you're not drained, you know? Yeah. Like even with the whole process syndrome code switching or just even being a woman who has to cover up everything. What is your super girly, girly like, you know? And now I feel bad every day cuz I gotta put these all black on. So, you know, just find what makes for you. That's really the main thing you

Alexis 38:04

should do. No, I agree cuz like it does, like, that was me when I was younger. Like I, I didn't have. Of like changing my appearance and changing who I was, but it is draining and like I think you're completely right. That is a very, very draining thing and it's almost a limiting thing. You're limiting yourself and you're also operating on a precon preconceived notion of someone else's bias that you have no idea how they actually view you, but you're so scared that they're like, Are they gonna view me as less because of some prejudice that they have? And how can I fight that prejudice by changing myself, right? Yeah. Which is al almost, it's an impossible battle. All that it's done is probably just drained you and made you more anxious or more like uncomfortable in that situation. And so, I also wanna say thank you as well for bringing up the fact of suicide in construction because it is a huge issue in this industry, and I don't think that a lot of people know that or realize that it's such an issue, but it is because it's such a hard industry, you don't get much. Praise and recognition. I also think that it's an industry that can sometimes be looked down upon or not given enough kudos for how much impact and how much work that you guys do and how everything is construction based. I don't think you guys get enough time off. I get enough praise. I don't think that you have enough space for mental health. I know your rotation is probably crazy as well, right? Yeah. Like your hours of work.

Catrina 39:29

Yeah, like for real, like I start my day at. Six. I'm up in bed, up in the, like in construction world, I'm up by five 30. Most people start work at five 30, you know what I mean? I'm lucky I have to be at work by six 30. So people have a different, people don't realize, most construction workers, they're up before dawn. They're up before you even. Type your first sip of coffee and they're getting off of work by seven, eight o'clock at night. By the time they get off, they're just dirty, tired, wanna go to bed, and it's like the repetitive cycle. You know, and let's be for real construction, they don't do mental health checks. They're not gonna act, how are you feeling today? Nobody acts how you're feeling. You know? So they just ask if the work is done. So that's really how it works. Yeah. So, but mental health, cuz suicide I think is one of the highest, it's like one of the highest trades. I'm not sure what the top five are, but I know it's up there in the top five cuz suicide happens a lot. There. So there's drug problems to it. Well,

Alexis 40:24

Yeah. Yeah. Well that's usually like hand in hand. At least in like the mining industry, we have these crazy kind of rotations and hours of same as you guys. The drug drug problems are a huge problem and a lot of it is just for people to stay awake and to stay, to like stay up and present and being able to work and function for, at common. Rotation would be like 12 hour days, two weeks straight. You kind of can't work a 12 hour day for two weeks straight without breaks, without either having a lot of fatigue or an evening something to boost you up. And I feel like that's usually where people turn to drugs. I mean, alcohol and cigarettes aren't even really considered drugs in these industries. Yeah. There's like considered nothing. Right. So it, it is just like, it's a.

Catrina 41:06

Yeah. Most my coworkers have completely, my, my manager this morning told me she had five espressos. I'm like, lady, it's seven o'clock. What do you mean you have five espressos? Yeah. Like, yeah.

Alexis 41:17

Yeah. But it's something to keep you up. Yeah.

Catrina 41:20

But then you don't even realize, you with construction, you really do wear and tear in your body and nobody even thinks about your mind, you know? Mm-hmm. And that's why even with the black women construction space, I even asked like, how do you guys handle conflict at work? How do you handle imposter syndrome? How do you handle feeling like you're not good enough? And then when people commented, it allows other people to see, okay, I'm not the only one suffering. You know, that's what the whole platform is, to know that you are not alone in this process. And I definitely know people in construction who's told me, yeah, I thought about suicide many times. And you know, and it's, it's not their fault. But it's just so ingrained with them to be working, working, working, working, working. They know nothing else but work, so even when they don't have work, they're dealing with their demons, you know? So. I feel like mental health, we talk about it a little bit, but in high demand fields, or even like mining for example, where you're working so much, people don't really care about your mental health. You really have to allocate time for yourself and make it a priority.

Alexis 42:17

No, I couldn't agree more. I love that you offer that because I think it is so important and I also think that it's, it's a culture that hopefully will change as more people talk about it, more people give space to it. More people kind of have that first conversation. I think that's the first step to changing that culture is just talking about it. Just say, I'm

Catrina 42:33

not okay, and just some, someone saying they're not okay is like a big step. They don't even realize.

Alexis 42:40

Yeah, that's a scary first step, right? Like that is a very, very big step. So just having that kind of, that platform available is so important. And I wanted to speak to a little bit about something else with culture within like construction, within trades just in general for a, looking at it on like a big macro lens. Is the lack of representation within these fields and the fact that that's such a huge problem and it is such a, like a whitewashed industry. And I was wondering if you could touch on the importance of representation because I know that it's probably something like it's the reason why black women in construction exists partly, but it's also, you're a mentor probably to so many young women and you probably know that impact and know that importance because you're that representation role model for a lot of people in your life probably. So I was wondering if you could talk to it.

Catrina 43:25

It's actually kind of nervous saying I'm somebody's role model. I'm just trying to be the best version of me, honestly. No,

Alexis 43:31

you are though. I bet you you are though, Katrina. Like I would not be surprised if there's a lot of young women that look up to you as a role model.

Catrina 43:40

I just wanna be the best version of me cuz you know why sometimes it didn't matter. Cause that's it. Cause even like a few years ago, I remember I went to the first job interview and it was like, for an assistant project manager job. And there was a lady, I love her to death. I still talk to her. Lauren, she was black and I was like, black women actually work in management. Like I was excited. I didn't care about the job. Honestly, during the interview I'm like, so what do you do? I'm like, I exed out. Everybody else in the interview started asking her questions cuz I'm like, wow. It's just so cool to see someone who's like me, who's cool like me. Who gets it. Yeah. Cause you know when you go to work sites, Most of the day, I'm the only woman there, the only black woman there, of course. I'm dark-skinned, I got locked. I'm, I already look different, you know what I mean? So I already know I stand out in a bunch. It's okay to stand out, but sometimes I just wish I had someone who gets me. You know what I mean? Is that with you?

Alexis 44:32

Yeah,

Catrina 44:32

yeah, yeah. That's why representation does matter cuz sometimes. Maybe I'm just having a hard ass day, or maybe I'm just PMSing and I need someone to vent to, you know, someone who sees like what I'm going through or just sees me. I sometimes it's just important to have people who can see you, you know? Like being seen or valued is very important. I know people can, like, what does she mean by being seen, but like, just meaning that I could be my whole self and not be scared to be my whole self. You know? If you work in companies where, for example, you're the only woman on the mining site, You're not gonna tell 'em you have a migraine, cuz they're gonna be like, oh, she's going through her woman problems. Pm You know, it's like a whole dramatics about it. So like with that, I just know representation matters because sometimes. I just wanna see someone who looks like me, who inspires me to know that I can move up in this career field, honestly. You know, cuz then it's like, all right, if I work here, what's the point of me even working here? If I know five years from now, I'm never gonna get seen, I'm never gonna be valued. Yeah. You know?

Alexis 45:33

Yeah. Where am I gonna go? Where's kind of the next future evolution for me? If I can't see it, if it doesn't look like it exists already.

Catrina 45:40

Yep. If I don't see it, I'm gonna be like, oh, this ain't even gonna happen. I'm not, I know. A hundred percent. I'm not gonna give my all to the job, cause I'm gonna wanna look for someone else where I can feel happy and be seen, you know? Yeah.

Alexis 45:52

Be yourself. Like be completely, yeah, be seen, be validated, and also like see kind of that future of it. I do like, I think it's funny that when you first, I first asked that question and you were like, oh, I'm just trying to work on being the best version of myself. I feel like that's how you become a role model is like that is exactly like probably why you are a role model to somebody else. So like I feel like doing that is probably already making the groundwork of like someone else that's probably gonna come onto site, right? And be like, oh my goodness, there's a black woman in construction. That's crazy. I did not know. Right? Like, it's like that. That's probably already happened.

Catrina 46:24

When I see a woman on site, I'm like, Hey, how are that video? Somebody popping their head like, There's another woman, I'm like, I'll really just go up and start talking to them. They'd be like, who is this lady? I'm like, I dunno, what's your name lady? Like we become best friend. You know, it matters a hundred percent even when you're on site and you know how representation matters. Being someone friend on site does matter. Like even like it goes back to the mental health part of it. You never know how far your hello can be for someone else. So that's even like when people think about representation. Don't think it's so structured, like, oh, it's just race. It's just sexuality. Just be present. Being present makes so much difference in someone's day, you don't even realize, you know? Yeah.

Alexis 47:09

Yeah. No, I love that. I think that's like perfect advice of it, and I love that kind of call out of like any single woman on site of being like, oh my God, we're gonna be best friends because like, I'm guilty of it too. Like as soon as somebody comes in I'm like, oh my goodness. Hello. Like, welcome. I'm gonna sit at your coffee table. Yeah.

Catrina 47:26

You want some snacks? I got snacks. I'm prepared minutes for this. Yeah. I've

Alexis 47:31

been waiting for this moment. Yeah. Come in. Yeah, I come in really heavy with like the energy of like, it's a lot, you know what I mean? To be like, would you like to have a sleepover? Would you like, like what's your favorite color? Where did you grow up? My name's Alexis. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I made you a bracelet. Like, I've made a club. We're, we're already there. Nice to meet you.

47:52

Yes.

Catrina 47:53

We're sisters from different mothers. We're sisters. Like forever. Yes,

Alexis 47:58

completely. But I do, it's like, it's just, it's so freaking powerful, right? Like it really is to have that like community and have that instant representation and, and have that instant person that you're like, you understand it, you get it. You're a safe space. I can come to you, I can talk about it. It's not gonna be judged. I'm not gonna be looked at differently. It. I can just come to you with all my stuff. Like it is just, it does feel very, very, very nice. And you know, it's reciprocated too. They're feeling the same way and they're usually just as like jazzed up to be like, this is great. I've also made a bracelet. Right. Like everyone's kind of in the same, yeah, same boat.

Catrina 48:34

Sometimes people just need a friend because work is hard. Yeah. Imagine being at work and nobody, your friend, nobody talks to you like, that sucks. So that's why I'm at work. They like, Katrina, you're too damn chipper at eight o'clock. Take it down. I'll be like, I'm like, I didn't drink coffee. They're like, you sure? I'm like, no, I didn't drink coffee. I'm just ready. Like, you know? Cause it just sometimes a smile and a hello can go so far and you know? And even with like just being women, even. There might be a guy on site who become like your best friend on site. You know, sometimes you just have to find an ally. Don't be afraid of saying hi. Totally. That's something too. I realize women in construction we're afraid of speaking up. We're afraid of just saying something cuz we're afraid we're gonna say the wrong thing. But sometimes saying nothing is the wrong thing, you know, not speaking up is worse sometimes than didn't, didn't say anything.

Alexis 49:22

No, I agree. I like that. I like that advice a lot. And maybe that's gonna, it brings us to the next one, cuz my, my last one is, what's something that you learned during your time of trades? Like, maybe it is like that, that ability to speak up and say hi, or maybe it's something different, but like, what's something that you really didn't realize when you first started out? Your, your career in construction was something you had no idea about and then you had to kind of learn along the way and it's this like big sticking point for you.

Catrina 49:49

That's a good question. Thank you for that question. That's what I'm thinking about that one. You're welcome. Something I learned, something that I learned is that I can't be afraid to learn. That's something real big. I'm learning or just not learning, but I'm living it actually. Cause I can't be afraid to learn. Cause you can think you know something, you've done the same thing 50 years, but then there's new technology, there's new information, or there's just an easier way to do it. You can't be so headstrong that you are. Like un penetration, un penetration of a wall. You know what I mean? Because then you'll never have to success. Like even though my job right now, everything now they do is digital and some of the older, older quote unquote teammates, they're, it's hard for them to understand because they're so closed off to learning stuck, you know? Yeah, yeah. You should never be stuck cuz the minute you become stuck in your ways, the minute you'll be stuck in a dollar pay grade that you're at, that's the minute you'll be stuck to the opportunities you have. Like, you know, so even just, being okay with being an apprentice, you can be a skill, you got a skill set 40 years, but you could be okay learning something from the new person. That's the greatest thing I learned. Like just being open to learn. Just being open to learning from my, my, my mistakes, you know? Cuz like you said, I mess up, bring it back and I'm be embarrassed and I'm just, I don't wanna talk about it, but reality is maybe I do need to talk about it. So then I'll know what points would I, did I. Not see, you know, sometimes your vision is just so, like what they call it, horse vision. Like your vision is so stuck. Like

Alexis 51:19

tunnel vision.

Catrina 51:20

Yeah, tunnel vision. That's the word. Your tunnel vision is just stuck. But I wanna be able to just be receptive. You know? Best thing I've learned is probably to learn, be open to learning, and just be learning to be myself honestly. Hate to love it, you know? I know who I am. I know I'm a little extra. Yes,

Alexis 51:39

exactly. Yeah. I'm so powerful. Yeah,

Catrina 51:43

it's like, like you said earlier, you're an introvert, but you're doing a podcast which makes you extrovert. So you know what I mean? You gotta learn to pick and choose when you wanna be there, you know? So you just gotta learn who you are. That's really the best advice. I would say. Learn who you are, cuz everything else is, don't fall into place. Hate or love it. They don't fall into place.

52:03

No,

Alexis 52:04

I love it. I love that, that answer. I love both of those answers. Cause I also kind of think that they're, they're one and the same a little bit. Like I think learn who you are, it comes with time, but I also think it does come with messing up, like it comes with trying, putting yourself out there and then probably getting it wrong the first couple times and then being like, yeah. Like, what is the next step? Like what, what do I have to learn? What do I have to do better if I'm gonna try this again? What's that gonna look like? Then you've kind of like learned who you are, but I feel like you kind of learn who you are by, by mucking up, by having everything kind of go wrong, and then you've, you sorted yourself out on the way, but then when you figure out yourself out, at least for me, like I felt the most. Powerful. The best at my job, the most present. Like, I felt like I could actually give the most back to like a community or to someone else that I'm talking to when I feel more like myself and when I'm just like more authentic and I, I don't really care about how other people are gonna judge me, but it did take me a long time. I'm not gonna say that I got there early. It's a lot. I was still dressing like this and I was like completely changing my personality to like try to fit in a space that I didn't think was there for me. Right. So like, yeah. It does take a lot. I love that answer. I think that's an amazing one. And Katrina, it's just been so lovely chatting with you. It was so nice. Thank you,

Catrina 53:23

Alexis. This has been great. This is, you know, that's actually one of my goals for next year to get on my podcast, leave Like you, that's one of my goals too, for next year for black women. Oh goodness. To be structured and like, I love it. You know? I love it. Love it. So I'm love it. I'm excited To the final result, this,

Alexis 53:39

oh. Me too. And I was about to say, if you ever want, like, that's an amazing goal. I love to hear that because if you ever want to come back on the show, you just say the word and I would love to have you back on the show. I think that would be so much fun. And I think you, you mentioned something that I was, I kind of chuckled at almost, that you were like, oh, just like a hello and just like, you never know. Your impact to somebody else and I was like, I don't know if Katrina knows that this like made my night, like this one interview. I was like, I've had so much fun. I was like, I don't even know if she knows like the impact that she's making right now. So like just thank you so much. It was so lovely chatting with you. It was so nice knowing you or like meeting you and being able to hear more about your platform and Black women in construction. And just thank you again. Thank you so much

Catrina 54:21

for having me. Hopefully your viewers and listeners love it. And make sure they follow Black Women Construction all platforms, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, website, everything.

Alexis 54:33

That sounds amazing. I will. I'm gonna tag all of it. Okay guys, if you're listening, thank you so much. Please do what Katrina says. Go follow everything right now cuz she's amazing and she deserves it. And we will see you next Wednesday. Thank you so much for listening. We are the Smoke Go podcast. Bye.

Catrina 54:50

Bye guys.