Alexis 0:00

Hello everybody and welcome to the MoCo Podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your host. Nice to meet you. The MoCo Podcast is the place to celebrate and highlight women, trans women, and non-binary folk working within stem and trade occupations. And so please tune in, join us, take a break. We're on smoke o. Today we're extremely lucky to be joined by the lovely Dr. Stella Kafta, who is a physicist and astronomer. She has been an executive director for a nonprofit called A A VS O, which is the American Association of Variable star observers. She is also currently the c e o and director of the A M s, which is the American Meteor Metier Logic Society, which I'm having a little bit of trouble saying, but a m s. And so we're gonna talk all things astronomy. We're gonna talk about aa, V S O. We're also gonna talk about a m s, and it is just, I'm so excited to learn more because I know nothing about astronomy. So thank you so much, Stella, for coming on the show. I'm really excited for this conversation.

Stella 0:58

It's a really privilege to be here. Thank you for having me.

Alexis 1:02

Oh my goodness. The privilege is, is all ours. It really, really is. Della. And, and maybe to, to start us off, could you kind of walk through maybe how you discovered this field? Because I know you have a bachelor's in physics and then you have both a MSE and a PhD in astronomy and then you have a double minor in physics and geophysical science. Could you kind of walk through how you fell in love with the field of astronomy? How, how that

Stella 1:28

happened? You know, the way that I hear you saying that, I'm thinking I was trouble. I lost trouble. Who was trouble from earlier. That's actually true. I was one of these, those kids that, I was asking all the really annoying questions why this works and why this is happening and how it's happening. One of those kids that was a, a terror in the kitchen was I was trying to break things and put things in. So my parents, both how they survived this tele phenomenon while I was growing up is a mystery. But they, they encouraged it, right? It's the same thing with me and my brother. They encouraged asking questions back in the day. Now I'm dating myself. We had encyclopedias, like these huge kinda books where we were looking for information there. So that was our bread and butter would ask a question why and what and where. You know, just grow up in encyclopedia and then watch documentaries and then have discussions at home. I always wanted to see. How things work, and that's why I was breaking them. Right. It is the first thing you do is pregnancy was inside. Yes, yes. And then try to put it together mm-hmm. Before your mom realizes what you're done. At the same time, I went, I'm, I'm from Greece. I was born and raised in Athens and I went to, middle school and high school here and in Greece. We need to decide what we wanna do when we grow up, what we wanna study, early on in life by the end of high school, and then take an exam to get to the, the school we decide to go to. And there's no turning back. This is one of those things where you have to take one the most critical decisions of your life at the very early stage.

Alexis 3:08

Wow. It's

Stella 3:08

different, but you know, it's different at some point. Mm-hmm. It's different and it's, you know, there's pressure there because how many 18 year olds, I mean, I still dunno what I wanna be when I grow up. That's just a bad joke. I'm, I'm very happy where I am, but at some point I figured out that I loved nature. And at school I was a good student across the board, but I loved physics. Hmm. So when the time came for me to choose, I chose to, become a physicist. Exactly. Because physics is describing how the world works around us. And that was my calling. I, I really loved it. You know, people think that physics is difficult, math is difficult. It's much, much easier than learning a language, a foreign language, because foreign languages, even English, you know, they have so many exceptions in every single rule that is a headache where physics has specific, you know, rules that you follow and based on them, everything that's happening in nature works. It has a very straightforward and actually connected in, in my mind, in my brain. So I was an undergraduate at the physics department of the University of Athens in Greece. It's a really big school, so in my year there was 230 students

Alexis 4:23

just in. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah, it was really

Stella 4:25

big. So at there, we don't have, say, majors. Mm. We all become physicists, but So you, you couldn't become a major in astronomy or a

Alexis 4:36

major in computer science.

Stella 4:38

Yes, yes, yes. Through that or a major in mm-hmm. Technical. You, you're a physicist, but if, it is mandatory to have a thesis, an undergraduate thesis, and there you get to choose what you wanna do, can do nuclear physics, solid state physics. And I chose astronomy simply because I was just curious, what earth are they doing? How are they figuring out what's going on up in the universe? Right. Mind you, I grew up in a big city, so I never saw, saw stars, probably night sky. Yeah. Stars, right? I could see the moon, the sun, maybe ju maybe couple of stars. That's it. But I was just curious. So I did my, thesis in astronomy and boy, I'm gonna tell you all, just stay away because it's a big attract. It's addictive. It's really addictive, you know? Oh,

Alexis 5:27

I could imagine. It's the universe.

Stella 5:30

It's a universe. It's like, you know, your Sherlock Holmes and you try to explore with teeny tiny amount of data, and then you're building on what other people have built before. Wow. And since this kinda thing, I'm like, you know, I, I wanna do that. And even my undergraduate, this advisor said, you know, sure, but you might not find a job. Doing astronomy. And I say, you know, I'll, you know, I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah, I'm gonna figure it out. But that's what I wanna do. And, you know, that's my superpower, being stubborn, and to having a good intuition. So, I chose Indiana. We knew about the, astronomy department, au blooming IU Bloomington I went there to work with specific people and the things that I really loved about Indiana, you know, where do I get started? It's small, but not really. So the, the, the town itself has its own life when students are not around, people are so amazing, they're so friendly. They make you feel welcome and make you feel very warm and make you feel safe, which is. One side of the ocean to the other. Absolutely. And just being there by myself. Absolutely. Something. Hi, I'm here. Yeah. You need community.

Alexis 6:44

You need someone there that's warm.

Stella 6:46

Yeah. You need to want to, to feel safe, right? Mm-hmm. Something happens to me. Who should I talk to? Can talk to my mom, but she's like an emotional way. She can't exactly drive there. But at the same time, the astronomy department's research Institute, meaning that, we're learning from researchers and also Indiana is not exactly the most clear skies area in the United States is a lot about weather going through IU Bloomington. The astronomy department has access to cutting edge technology telescopes at Kit Peak in Arizona. Oh, dark sites. Mo modern instruments. Since the department's small when I was there, now they have expanded. When I was there, there was seven professors and only two of them were using those facilities. I'm like, you know, I get guaranteed time. I get to, as an observational astronomer, I get to take my own data. I get to, to learn from the process. I get to make mistakes. Not only lifestyle, but you know, we, we learned by making mistakes. So it was a fantastic opportunity. I spent six years at IE. Bloomington. I didn't want to leave my thesis advisor. I was having so much fun. Seriously? Mm. My thesis advisor was like, you know, you cannot exactly retire being a graduate student. That's not how things happen. So at some point, congratulations, here's your

Alexis 8:12

PhD's. Gone. Gone.

Stella 8:15

So that's, a longest version of the story. And never look back really. Alexis. I, I love my preparation and, you know, it's not just that I learn about the universe and I learned how to do research in a couple of things. There's so many skills that you get when you are in school. From, Doing research in terms of finding literature research Yes. But is relevant to your subject. Giving presentations, marketing yourself and your research. Building collaborations and leading groups to, to, being able to build a project and guide all the way to the end where you're writing a manuscript or you're writing a thesis. Mm-hmm. So these are skills that they don't intentionally, teach you at school, but you get along the way. Yeah.

Alexis 8:58

It happens with it. It's just part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, no, I, I love that, Stella. I love that. I also love how you called yourself the Stella phenomenon right off the get go of trouble. Gosh. I think, I think that's amazing.

Stella 9:15

I'm still surprised. Cause I, I was, I was a good kid, but I was a troublemaker. I, I was really doing dangerous things and my gusto.

Alexis 9:29

I think that's any young scientist, I think, right? Like I, I really do. I think you, you are troubled when you're young because you're just so curious and you wanna understand the natural world. And, and I love that answer that you fell. In love with the natural world and wanted to know the big questions because I think that's, that's what physics is about, is the big questions of the universe and the big, and the dini dining one. Yes, it's true. It's, it's on all scales, but it starts so large and it's, I mean, I always think, cuz I'm a geologist, I always go a little biased that I'm like, oh, we, we go big, but we don't go as big as physics. You guys take us and, and go even bigger than that and talk about the origins of the universe. And it's, it's just so cool. So I love that you discovered that, fell in love with it and then just didn't look back. I also love that you fell in love with astronomy after living in Athens and maybe not having, stars, but just being like, you know what? I think I'm interested in this and I think that there's something about this that I wanna learn more. So I, I love that aspect of the, the answer as well. I think it's just so

Stella 10:31

cool. I'm gonna tell you a story here. Yes, please. Very first time I was at Kid Peak with my Peace Advisor as a graduate student. Right. It was horrible. It was during my soon season. It was cloudy everywhere for four nights. Could not use a telescope. I got back, I was so depressed. Yeah. And we got, more telescope. That was, the end of July, August. Right. And we got more telescope time that year in September. So we walk in there, in September. It was perfect. Ah, clear skies. Beautiful. The, the whole sky wound move. You could go out, you know, we see, stars twinkling. That's because there's turbulence in the air. So as a starlight goes through our atmosphere, that's how you know.

Alexis 11:17

No, I didn't know that. Oh, that's crazy. Ok. Perfect.

Stella 11:22

Observing conditions and you know, we're taking data and project and Oh my gosh. So excited. And at some point I'm like, you know, I'm gonna go outside and look at the night sky, just experience it and bathe in it and Oh, you know, yeah. Be there with it. Person. Yes. Indeed's, totally. Yeah. It's, it's experience. Go out three seconds. Was walking in the, in the control room with this advisor was there, telescope was there, and I'm like, oh my gosh, their clouds coming in. And they were really See because, serious, because the weather patterns at peak are the reason why this, this, the turbulence can actually clear off is because you can have the strong wind that actually clears everything up. But because of that, sometimes. You can form clouds really fast. Ah, yes. If there's phone coming through. Mm-hmm. And people need to know. Right. And you have to close the telescope within half an hour because otherwise it's dangerous. You can get rain in. Oh. The telescope was like, oh my goodness. He was, she was checking the weather monitor, she was checking humidity, she was checking radar checking. She's like, you know, you have one of the best nights I've seen this year, right? It's no treadmills, et cetera. So my thesis advisor was like, okay, so let's, let's go outside and see, you know, where the clouds are coming from. So go outside. And I show him the sky and he turns to me and he said, this is the center of the Milky Way galaxy, and it's gonna stay there. It was the first time I saw the center of our galaxy and thought it was a let Forget that

Alexis 13:06

going away.

Stella 13:14

Oh my goodness.

Alexis 13:16

Yep. Oh, but that you're never gonna forget that either. Like that center of the galaxy's gonna be part of your brain forever. And I love that. Not the panic, but yes. You have to shut down. Like you have to shut. Yeah. Clouds are coming like we need to go. And then them to be like, no, you city kid. That's the galaxy. Exactly. That's what it looks like. That's what we're studying. Oh my goodness. That's funny. Yeah. And Stella, this is maybe an aside, but just because I've seen telescopes from movies, but I've never seen them in real life. These observatory centers, what do they look like? Could you describe them?

Stella 13:55

Okay, so let's start with the movies, right? So, okay. The observatories look like that actually in the middle of nowhere, literally nowhere, most of the times they're dead, a desert up at the mountaintop. So you try to get above as much atmosphere as you can, and you want dry conditions. You don't want any condensation on your mirrors or any rain or any bad weather. So the sites are being selected very, very carefully. So they have two different parts. Most observatories, they have a part where the telescope is hosted, so it's, this is the dome of the telescope. The do the telescope itself is in there, and that is kept dark. So as dark as you can, lights off, there's nothing in there because what you want is to, to get light from stars, right? Mm-hmm. You don't want anything. Destroying that or put putting any extra background in your data. Mm-hmm. Now most of those telescopes have digital cameras on them and they're actually very similar to the camera that you have on your phone. Oh, cool. Telescope, that's CCD camera. So we order, take picture, we attach that to the telescope. So since that is digital, everything is being controlled and fed from, remotely through a computer. And those computers are being hosted to a room that is right next to the telescope that is called controller. And this is where you have all the monitors that control the way that the telescope moves. Ah, they also have, yes. Okay. Sensors for temperature and, and humidity and all kinds of, weather, weather conditions inside and outside the dome. So you need to find equilibrium, making sure that the dome itself has a slate or something moves with the telescope as you, you know, the, the sky rotates. Yes. Yeah. Right. Because the location's changing. And this is a place where, we control the cameras, that little instrument and we take data. So usually the person who does that is the astronomer. So I would sit in front of the computer and tell the computer, okay, tell my telescope operator we wanna go to that start, would actually, he or she would move the telescope towards that direction. And I'm very likely, by the way, parent, I've had primarily women operators and I've learned so much from them. Yeah. Very cool. I didn't expect, it's amazing. That's, that's awesome. Yeah. That's amazing. It's, we have lots of really great conversations. I am grateful to my thesis advisor for teaching me. Data and telescopes, et cetera. But I learned a lot of how to observe from my telescope operators. They're rock stars really. So you would give your telescope operator, their coordinate. She would actually move the whole thing where you're supposed to be and keep monitoring it. And then, as an alarm, you stand in front of a computer and you, you control pretty much how the camera behaves. What kinda data you wanna use. As data come in as pictures or whatever it is, comes through, you check them to make sure that they have at least the preliminary information that you need. And then, you store them somewhere. So one of the things I don't like about the movies is that they show the astronomer, the dome with an eyepiece and you don't do science this way nowadays, big telescopes. And the second one that kinda upsets sometimes that they show the astronomer sitting in a desk right next to the telescope with a light on.

Alexis 17:19

You're like, absolutely not. Yeah. You're like, the light has to be off. There's an operator who's gonna talk to you the entire time you're working on it together. Yeah. That would bug me too. I'd be like, no, that's not real. How can you

Stella 17:29

get data with a light on in the door? I mean, it's just, it's not from the stars. It's the lamps that you have us around that dominates everything. So that is one of the things that really bother me in movies when I see, you know, the astronomer right next to a, a state of the art huge telescope, sitting right next to it. With the lights on, pretending the data of really faint objects.

Alexis 17:57

Yeah. You're like, this is not real. And, and maybe the next question, so is like for, cuz your research, you've done so much work and like postdocs. At these observatories, and you've gone through multiple observator. I know you've worked down in Chile, you've worked at as a NASA fellow in Washington, a Carnegie in a, a bunch of different places that you've worked in these observatories. What type of data are you looking for? Are you looking at luminosity? Like what, what is the actual kind of properties that you're measuring and then what's that specialty that you're really looking for when you're looking at that data? Oh,

Stella 18:37

so how, these are two different questions. So Yes, I know the second one. Okay. And this are the second one. So the stars that I'm interested in are called cataclysmic variables Now fancy work, work. Fancy word to describe two stars. They're very close together. One right next to the other. Right. Okay. The one, one of them is a star, like the sun, maybe a little bit smaller or like a normal little star that's hanging out. And the second one's a very special type of star, and it's called white dwarf now. Okay. This one is a remnant. It's, it's a dead star. Starva has gone through all its spaces and it's, it has the mass of the sun, let's say, squeezed to the size of the earth. Wow. So it's a very dense star. Yes. Okay. So when you put these little white warf, and it's very small, but very dense, right next to the, the sun-like star. Mm-hmm. So if the earth was a wide wharf, the gravitational field of the earth would actually start absorbing material from the sun.

Alexis 19:42

Oh, yes, it would. Yes.

Stella 19:44

The White War is so dense. Yes. Cause it's so dense, not just heavy, it's dense. It's just the density thing. So the potential is, is much higher. So, so it's cannibalizing, its its companion in principle. So this is stellar cannibalism at its best, you know. Cool. So as it eats, its eats material. So what happens to us here is a question for you. If you eat too much too quickly, what happens? You get sick,

Alexis 20:12

you eat a lot of food. Oh, you feel gross. Yeah.

Stella 20:16

You start, you throw up, right? Yeah. Yeah. I guess

Alexis 20:18

yes you would. So, whoa, does the stars start putting out material? Yes.

Stella 20:26

Whoa. So happens in these little wide war and it's, it's, it's so quickly. So the starts then starting, right? Mm-hmm. So, so quickly to the point where it cannot absorb all the material and it, there's a certain level of nuclear, reactions that are happening. This atmosphere, it just throws up and it's what we call a Nova explosion. You heard about Nova? Yes.

Alexis 20:50

Yes, I have. Yes, I have heard of this. Yes. Instantly, like a huge explosion.

Stella 20:56

It just throws up. But you know, like people, those stars don't learn, so it keeps eating again. So some of them throw, well, so we expect them to show multiple Nova eruptions. They eat a lot, and they get to that critical model. They can't handle that food and throw up again, again, again. So this is what we call recurrence nova. Cool. So I'm studying this as well and actually, have you heard about supernova? Yes, I have. Yes. Mm-hmm. And a they special type of supernova that we are using in order to measure distances in the universe or, measure cosmological parameters. How do we know the universe expanding? For example, these are type one a supernova. And we know, we suspect that the progenitors of those Type one Ava is this little wide word that keeps eating material from its companion and grows and, and reaches a certain mass. And that particular mass is very critical to ignite, carbon in the very center of the wide war. And it, it leads to catastrophic explosion. This kills the whole system. Boom, boom, wherever. Wow. So I'm studying the projectors of the supernova. Yes. I'm studying how mass is being transferred from one start to another. And actually, for my thesis was focusing on the poor abuse star that was, you know, giving

Alexis 22:15

all these, getting heated alive. Yeah. Just cannibalized star. Get outta there if you can.

Stella 22:25

So we studied those stars in two different ways. I am an optical astronomer. Astronomer, meaning that the data was getting was, where are in wavelengths that you can see with your eye. The thing is that even through the mo, the world's most powerful telescope, because those stars are so far away and the two little components are so close. You still see a dot. It's happening okay's, not that you can dis dissolve the thing, this is just one. Mm-hmm. But because of this kind of mass transferring and all the changes and all the cab booms, et cetera, if you take enough data over time, the star is doing something different. So you are monitoring, its, it's brightness, so bright is and goes up and down, et cetera. And that's, that's characteristic of the, the mass transfer process itself. Oh, I see. You can learn from there. Also, you can use different filters to just focus on specific, parts of, light of light and that gives you different information. So you are looking a little bit in the green, a little bit in the red and a little bit in the blue. And then from there you get different information about the whole system. But also we're using, so this is one way of doing it. The second one is we're using things like prisms. Have you played with the before? Yes, yes I have. Yeah. It analyzes light non components. Mm-hmm. So we're using something, a little bit more sophisticated, which is called a spectrograph. Okay. Yes. We used the

Alexis 23:50

spectrograph

Stella 23:51

before. Yes. Okay. Yeah, there you go. So, and, and you spread the light as much as you can to see different elements that existed in the atmospheres of those stars, and that gives you different information about, about those. So I was using my telescope to do both, both taking pictures and taking spectra. And, there were other colleagues who were working in different waylands, like there's some people who were working x-rays, right. With satellite data, some people who are using radio with radio data or even infrared other satellite data. So we synthesize all those to try to understand the nature of that system. Yeah. And mind you, telescopes and this kind of observation that we do is. I mean, those stars have what, a hundred years of history maybe? Yes, yes. So, and they lived millions of years. So we're trying to, to, to assess present, past, and future based on the teeny tiny part of data.

Alexis 24:48

Wow, that's so crazy. Like it's, it's insane on so many things. Thank you for explaining it. I think you did a fantastic job of explaining it to someone who is not as, has no background in astronomy. I'm blown away by that system and I'm blown away that you get to study kind of a precursor event to a supernova and to see that mass explosion, and first stages. And I, I think that's the entire system of a star cannibalizing another one and getting denser and denser and also having these mini eruptions would be so cool to see in the data. It would be really cool to track it to the history of that star. Oh yeah. And to see that mass transfer in real life, I think would be incredible. It's very complicated data though. I could imagine that it's, and because of the time distance as well, like you said, the past future, and that would be very hard the

Stella 25:44

past. Yes. It's one of those things, right? So you're looking back in history, so whatever you're watching sometimes, left the star or the star system thousands of years ago, millions of years ago at times. So you're looking at like space archeology in looking at the, in a, you know, that happened before and you're scratching your head or what's going on now, right? Yeah, yeah. You have no idea. That take a couple million years to count from standpoint

Alexis 26:16

as well. Oh, I could imagine. I feel like you've probably had that conversation with other physicists for the end of so many times, and you're probably gonna have that conversation in the future as well. But that's such a different mindset to think. Did it take you a long time to learn how to think about, what you're seeing in the present is actually, a projection of the past and like to put yourself in that past? Or is it just something that comes with you when you learn, astronomy and physic?

Stella 26:43

You know, it comes with all of us. Okay. Is there just the astronomy? So, yeah, at some point it's like, you get used to it. It's not just getting used to it. This is a philosophy. Most of us were looking at data, we're like, oh my gosh, what's happening now? Right? Mm-hmm. But then when you're thinking that now is not necessarily the present time. Okay, sure. What else can we do? How about that? You can't exactly go there and take a picture live, which we would all be willing to sacrifice our lives to do this. This is really quite an experience. Oh. But, you know, we do the best we can. And from there on, we keep studying the universe trying and similar objects to try to understand the ensemble, how it, how it functions. How it grows, how they grow, where they came from, what end, are, no one has seen one of those going super. Oh my

Alexis 27:34

goodness. I hope you guys get it soon. That would be so cool to see and to capture it, like just to see that blip. Oh, but it wouldn't be a blip. It would be huge, but it would fingers crossed for you, Stella. I hope, I hope that happens soon. I mean, that'll be insane to see it. And, and what a cool system. What a cool thing to study and, and to ponder. And. I know when we're talking about these data and we're talking about these star systems, one of the really cool things that you've been able to work on is A A B S O. And I was wondering if you could describe the, the program, the nonprofit, and kind of the mission of it, because it was, I think I have it on here from your website. It was exploring the universe and revealing properties of the most dynamic stars, which is like the coolest tagline of all time. Could, could you explain what the AA a bsso is?

Stella 28:28

You know, I'm, I'm gonna start by just saying that all the data that I wanted to collect mm-hmm. When I was doing my research, I was using a lot of archival data. Okay. Data that have been collected in the past and have been, documented somewhere for everyone to use. And also I was collaborating with the, with groups of amateur astronomers who had their own telescopes. So that, to help me gather. The pictures Right. While I was taking the spectrum so I could use one instrument in a telescope, it could not be in a gazillion places, but those individuals were really taking data and even sometimes in different filters on the object I was interested in. So there was a lot of collaboration there. And I got my thesis, my thesis completed exactly because I had access to this kinda databases, amateur shaer, doing this kind of work, for decades. Before I came in and, you know, recording before I came in as a researcher and those decades of data in my fingertips to put new data in, on top of it context. Yeah. So, a o observ has always been part of my, my research work. Mm. I knew the A s O as a graduate student. I had collaborated with those individuals because of the database. I got a PhD. And there are lots of stories of astronomers who can actually tell you that, especially those of us who work with time domain things that change with time. So the AVS O's mission is to enable anyone anywhere to participate in scientific discovery through variable star astronomy. And variable stars are stars whose brightness is changing with time. Okay? Within time scales that we can observe. Like the one that's, you know, my stars Robin and I would do. Crazy different things, right? So it's changing. Every time you take a snapshot, you see something that is slightly different. So if you keep observing them, then you kind of start building a puzzle. So the a bs essentially is bringing together amateur astronomers and professional astronomers collaborating project. And we're talking about high profile projects here. So, I've had the privilege of being the executive director of the, the A V S O for six years. And, we were working with new satellites like NASA's test. Satellite when it was first launched, we needed follow up data on exoplanets, right? We were working with people like me and my colleagues as you, oh my God, there's, yeah. We think that there's a Nova on there. We really need, and actually when it comes to Nova Amateurs, were the ones who were noticing them first.

Alexis 31:02

Wow, I didn't know that.

Stella 31:04

Yep. Yeah, we, we were even notified by then something like, so this star brightness is increasingly more aggressive way. And then, you know, they would keep observing the star and see the brightness increasing with time, and then professional astronomers would actually jump on it with different instruments. There's a beautiful synergy between a community of individuals who just look at, yeah. So it's, that's exactly what the A V S O is doing. It's actually helping individual, individuals to, to collaborate, bring together a community of science savvy people who care about the universe. They want to see how stars work. And the thing is, the nice thing with a vs o is that it, it's season science and through astronomy, it increases science, literacy brings, astronomy in everybody's home. But not only that provides the means for, those non-professional astronomers mm-hmm. To actually do their jobs. So they have software. There's a database where they can put their data saying their seminars. Yeah. But also, did you know you can do that yourself? No, I did not know. No. If you have a pair of binoculars, that's all it takes. You can actually do this kind of measurement with binoculars and the a o is there to actually hold your hand and she can't do it.

Alexis 32:23

Oh my goodness. I'm gonna try that this summer. We have binoculars at the cabin. I will. A hundred percent. That's amazing.

Stella 32:30

Yes. I, I tried that when I started the, so I was gifted to pair binoculars and, I didn't know Right. Without a, an automated system I wouldn't know. Nor from south. You know, professional starters donut

Alexis 32:42

look up most of us. Yeah. Yeah.

Stella 32:45

Ok. So, and when, you know, and I'm a city person, so when there's lots of stars together, I can't tell one from the other. Mm-hmm. I had a mentor and, he was sitting, he was standing right next to me with his bino pillars, showing me how to start up and find the star of my interest and do my measurements for the first time I went out. It was really nice. Oh, that's

Alexis 33:09

awesome. And what a, what an amazing like initiative. When I started researching you and also the AA B S O, I was just blown away by how beautiful that initiative was and how, like you explained it, it is this gorgeous synergy between, a community that ODI exists and has always exists. Right. And linking them and giving them the resources and the database and the tools. And I, I know that there's also courses and mentorship. Mm-hmm. And you can, there's so much resources that they provide to then be able to work hand to hand with professional astronomers. And I just think it's a fantastic initiative, a fantastic not-for-profit. And I love that they've also been some of the first people to see Novas, to be like, Hey, you guys really need to go over here. That starts getting crazy bright. Please come and see it. Like it's, yes. And that's a wonderful program.

Stella 34:03

Because professional swimmers don't have times or eyes everywhere. Yeah. And usually those who are doing, volunteers who are doing this work love a nice sky and most of them know their local night sky, you know, just by looking at it. They live in dark places or semi dark places. So when the little dog appears in the middle of nowhere where it wasn't there, it's like, okay, so what's going on in there? There's the showcases a star that has done something unusual. So they just go back and say, This one maybe. And you wanna pay attention to that little thing there. Yeah. And you know, this is how collaborations like that, and not only that, I mean, these are individuals again, who are using astronomy as a hobby. So, they have a day job or they need to actually flush the day job from the brain for a couple of hours. They go out, they take data, or they, they take data from the databases and they analyze em and they go back and take Pullup data. So they have discoveries that have improved our knowledge or actually revised our knowledge on certain stars. Exactly. Because. No professional astronomers. Amateur astronomers were paying attention. Oh my. And they were just doing stuff. Right. Ah, I I,

Alexis 35:16

I love that. I think that is so freaking cool. And, and speaking to those discoveries, like has there been something, one of those discoveries that stands out for you of being like, that was the most exciting or the most unexpected? Maybe it was your type of stars, maybe it was bias, that you were like, thank you for helping me out.

Stella 35:33

Exactly. So apart from the fact that, you know, they have been monitoring some of my favorite stars when I wasn't at the a. So, a group of people, they were, I'm trying to see where they were. They were in fin, it wasn't Finland, Germany, and the uk, something like that. So they were, they took a, I dunno how they chose it. They chose, that was classified as a specific type of variable. This is, you know, we're gonna take a look at it again. So let's take some more data. Mm-hmm. So to build up more of that, database and the user on telescopes, and they found that there's something bizarre with that star. The data were not converging. The older data was showing one thing, the newer data we're showing another thing, and based on the cataloged type of that star, they, the description of the data didn't fit. And they're like, okay, so what's going on in here? So they contacted a professional astronomer in the UK, in Warwick, and I said, listen, there's this star here. Can you take a look at, do you have access to different instruments? Take another look at it. And this started a, a study, a collaboration between the two. It turns out that this star was the evolutionary link between two different categories of lymics that were, was hypo hypothe size. Oh, so cool. But we never, you never captured it? We never had approved, never captured it. It's like a, a, like a, a white df pulser. So this is a star, has a very, the white door has a very, very strong magnetic field. Mm-hmm. So dense and it's spinning really, really fast. Its dense, but its magnetic field is strong as well. It's spinning fast and it's, It's between different stages of evolution. I'm gonna leave it there. Okay. They discovered the new category that we were craving to find. Cause it was essential for, you know, you tell a story, this tell the start, the middle part was missing, blah, blah, blah. Then the miracle happens, blah, blah, blah. It was the coolest thing ever witnessed it going because I was part of the emails that were going back and forth, just the witnesses. I'm like, and that happened because people, like three individuals decided they just wanna pay attention to this little star that was classified as net. Oh. It turned out to be a rockstar.

Alexis 38:07

Oh, I absolutely love that. I love when people are just so freaking cool. Like you're just like, I love that your passion for this one star and you're, Kind of focus on it had a huge impact, right? Like it, it just sounds like something serendipitous or something coincidental. But then it turns into this amazing discovery for science, an amazing marriage between professional and amateur. I think that's wonderful. Oh, what a

Stella 38:34

cool,

Alexis 38:36

cool finding. And I, I hope that there's many more to come. I hope that there's many more. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure there will be. Maybe that's where the Nova comes from. Maybe it comes from a A A G

Stella 38:46

S L. This one, if you know it, this one becomes a nova. Then we change everything we know about Nova. It's, it's unlikely. Okay. But at the same time, it's not, it's, you never know, right? Mm-hmm.

Alexis 39:00

That was my, I, I'm not an astronomer, I dunno, but I was just hoping for your, you're a scientist.

Stella 39:06

Yeah. See, you're a scientist. So what we do in science, that we observe nature, we describe it. Mm-hmm. If nature at some point, and we make theories about, and we think we know how things work, if nature showcases a different behavior, Then we missed something. Yeah. So we have to go back to our drawing board and actually discuss a little bit more and think a little bit more about what we thought. We knew what the new data state is taking us, and this is how actually science works. Mm-hmm. So when a scientist comes out, and it's not just an astronomer physics, neuro science, you know, even recently right. We were talking about covid. Mm-hmm. And people were, we were learning a scientist as we went. Seriously. Mm-hmm. No one was lying. Everybody was like, okay, so now we have new data. Oh, now we have a year data. Right? Yeah. So this evolves. It just keeps going. And that's a beauty science, if not anything else, it keeps us humble. You can't go out and say, oh, I know everything, or I figured it out. Okay. You can say, but nature can actually improve in a

Alexis 40:08

natural system. There's no way nature's gonna humble you very, very quickly. Like there's absolutely zero, zero ways. You're right. Science is always changing. It's always something that we're discovering and I just think that this is a beautiful initiative and I love that. That's what we found. I love that finding that you found that rockstar star. I hope you have. They did.

Stella 40:26

I was, I would start, they did observing. The whole thing unfolding, which was absolutely fascinating. Ah,

Alexis 40:33

it's, it's amazing. It's an amazing program. I hope there's many more of those in the future of it. And I know right now something a little bit different, but you're also with another amazing institution and another amazing society, which is the A M S, which is the American Meteorological Society where you're the c e O. Could you describe that? Society, its mission and its founding.

Stella 40:56

Yes. So I transited to the a s because I fell in love with this mission. Mm-hmm. So the mission of the American Meteorological Society is to advance the atmospheric related sciences, technologies, applications, and services for the benefit of society. Wow. Very intentional words in there. It's advanced as we move forward in a purposeful way, develop, improve, and focus on evidence-based science, right? Benefits be of service too, and make an improvement of our society. This is actually real life. Issues. These are things that, we care about. It's weather, it's water, it's climate. Mm-hmm. And, you know, the word society has equity, diversity, and inclusion, and its social justice in it. Mm-hmm. It's, it states that in principle, anyone, anywhere should be able to benefit from the the's work. And it's something that, you know, resonated with me because I'm in astronomer. I'm looking at the universe. The universe is vast. I can produce knowledge, but the AMS in principle is keeping people safe. Yes. Completely. How many times can you do that? Right? Yeah. Through, you know, we're, we're experiencing a rat weather phenomena right now. Mm-hmm. This weather, broadcast weather models, trying to understand atmospheric phenomena that are insane and even how they evolve with time and this long-term trends of this climate in principle. And how it's, it's, affecting us as a society, as people, as everyday lives. I mean, can be. It can be disruptive, affects everything that we do. Yes. Yeah. So the AM S'S work is actually doing exactly that. And at some point I was like, you know, I wanna give something back to society. I wanna do something that is helping save lives, helping improve our quality of life. Astronom does that. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's, it's, the knowledge that we have, the, knowledge that we gain, you understand the scientific pro process is, is exciting. It's fun. Yes. Yeah. But it doesn't exactly keep you from, keep you healthy. Yes. Yeah. It doesn't, you affect your livelihood or your economy, when think about, you know, weather, right? It's, it's in every single aspect of life. Think about, transportation, mobility, think about interest infrastructure, housing. We talked about health and safety, right? Talk about, even psychologically to affect us, problem damage, loss of life, disruption to our daily life. Everything, it can affect everything. It does affect mental health, right? Yeah. And social dynamics within our community. So it's so important that at some point when I had the opportunity, and I was ecstatic when I was actually Yes. Offered this particular position and let you know I'm gonna take it, it may take me a little bit far away from the research that I love. But the same time right now as a researcher, I just wanna do it. I just wanna know answers. Doesn't matter if I don't do it, just someone else needs to actually figure it out and tell me so I can keep following that. Yeah. At the same time, I can actually give to, to the ams, whatever I can in order for this society to grow and to keep moving forward, and helping science. Some up this Bible solutions for our society. Correct.

Alexis 44:23

Yeah. No, I, I love that and thank you for explaining that so well, because I, I couldn't agree more with the a m s and what it represents because it's such a, it's a foundation society that does so much mm-hmm. Good for all of society and all of our communities. Right. And it really has impactful science because, like you said, climate and weather and water, that affects every single aspect of our, of our lives and of our communities, and of our economy, and of our country. So it's so important to have a foundational understanding of it. And, and I love the idea of wanting to have impact and wanting to help people and that being the mission of it.

Stella 45:05

Yes. And you know, it's, it's, it, it helped me think about our planet in a different way. Right. Provides you space exploration, provides you perspective. But just see how dynamic, how interdependent, our whole system is as our whole planet is. So, you know, oceans, this is a water side, right? Things start from the oceans. We're trying to understand how things, still move and they, for a hurricane, for example, is a, a thing. That is a thing. Sorry, keep calling it thing. No, it's not a thing. Ok. Erase that. So for a hurricane, there's a system that starts building up in the middle of the ocean and then moves and gains, power as it moves. And then there's land falling, right? Mm-hmm. For, for the US it's usually in Florida or perhaps a little bit towards the west, but just even understanding how this thing moves and how it grows and how it builds up. Mm-hmm. Help us improve models for prediction. Yes. And when we make right predictions, we warn people earlier or we prepare our infrastructure to be able to survive this kinda of a phenomenal, so it's. It's just an example, one example on how we study, this, this kind of, of things. And, you know, I've met so many amazing people as, part of the a I've been there for a year and a half now. Did you know their, their individuals who jump on planes and take the plane and drive through the hurricane to take data?

Alexis 46:35

No, I did not. I couldn't imagine that, that conversation to be like, you know what, that's gonna be me. I couldn't imagine that personality,

Stella 46:44

you know, oh, they're so cool. And I told them, you know, that bucket list, I

Alexis 46:49

wanna do that with you guys once,

Stella 46:50

well, lemme try it once and maybe I'll get an appetite first. You, it's like extreme sports, but in this case it's like extreme science. You just on a plane stream. Oh my. You take real time, real life data. Have all kinds measuring. It's insane. And then people, you know, the whole world is running away from storms, but there are lots of scientists who are going towards storms and they set instruments to study them. And it's, it takes a, a certain kind of courage. Oh, completely do that. Right? A hundred percent. And those who are, and now, AI is really big machine learning in how to process all these data that's, they're coming from satellites and lots of radar data, satellites, methodological satellites out there, and the data is collected from the earth and build this kind of database, something that's so dynamic and so related to us. Right. I mm-hmm. I can tell you about cataclysmic variables. All, all I know. You won't see one. I won't see one. But if I told you about the snowstorm, chances are yeah, you're in another hemisphere, a little bit north, north. You, you have been new

Alexis 48:00

one. Yeah. Can I, we get a couple. Yeah. We get a couple in Canada, you know. Yeah.

Stella 48:06

So things like that. So it's, it has to do with phenomena that are part of our everyday life. Yeah. So you can connect with people through that, but at the same time, you can provide some advice and some ways for them to protect themselves and their families Ah, and their property.

Alexis 48:22

Yeah. What amazing. No, it's an amazing society and an amazing dataset and use of dataset. And I did not know about those rock stars that go into a hurricane or go into a, yeah. A storm. But you know what, it's a, it's a. Unique personality for sure. I don't know if it would be for me, I don't know if that's my type of science, but, we need those people. And that data is so, so valuable because you can actually understand a system on a more nuanced degree and then the impact that you can have, because you've now understand that that system, like you said, for prevention, for infrastructure, for emergency response, like you can have a true impact on your, on your community. I, I think it's

Stella 48:58

fantastic. Right. So the American Meteorological Society is a professional society, meaning that we have individuals of all aspects of life who are working for, towards producing good science. So we have academics, we also have individuals from the private sector, private companies, meteorologists, literally private channels. We have individuals from the government, we have NGOs. And actually we have a public outreach space. So in principle, anyone can become a member of VMs. They wanna, and we do, serve science through our programs, which are, scientific publications. We have some of the biggest journals in the, the Weather World Climate Enterprise. We have conferences which are venues where scientists are coming together to discuss scientific. Sorry about that. That's ok. Conferences where venues, where scientists are coming together to discuss scientific results and collaborate. We have formal statements, policy statements, which represent society's official position on subjects of interest. We have a very active education program. Which is actually, built on the principle of educating the educators, K12 teachers, providing them with, courses and knowledge that they could actually take into the classrooms. So individuals who are advancing the teaching skills and become a leader in earth science education, and then they take all this knowledge and incorporate it into, students learning activities. And also we have career services. We're trying to empower and develop the workforce of the president of the future. The lots of really well paid jobs out there that have to do with meteorology, have to do with weather, with atmospheric sciences, from high technical to, to research based. Mm-hmm. That, and actually the future is more of that, right? So we're trying to help, our younger members to find. The, the career that they would like to follow or people from one career to another. Yeah, that's, it's,

Alexis 51:03

it's amazing. And I had a couple questions, but I think we already kind of touched on them a little bit, but it's amazing how much that you get to do with the a m s and you guys are there with community, with education. You said your publications. Mm-hmm. They're like B, B all n all end all publications within this space. They're hugely, impactful. So that's wonderful. Of your a m s publications, I mean for jobs and for career fair. But one thing cuz we're just almost at the top of the hour, I just wanted to maybe touch on maybe some of the major initiatives that you guys are doing right now, because I know that one aspect is a community initiative and you have different a m s committees, throughout the country, right? Like you have different groups throughout the country, but you also have policy and government. Is there any initiatives in policy and government or in community that you guys are working on right now?

Stella 51:54

So there we do have an, a couple of initiatives going on. Okay. So there are a couple of things that we're doing, and they are related to a couple of, guest coincidences. The first one is, well, we have a new executive director now at the ams. I, I came board a year ago and we're emerging from Covid, right? Covid has affected everybody personal lives, private lives, and also, nonprofits, business loans. In ways that we just involve, dunno, predict. And even the fact that the AMS emerged from Covid, in a way that, you know, business as usual keep, keep moving forward, showcases how agile it's mm-hmm. And how we can actually navigate even the most disruptive times, in a way that is graceful to say yes. At least we can actually merge stronger from that. So one of the things that we're doing at DMS is an equity assessment and a little bit of a background, thes was one of those, societies that started thinking about minorities and women's rights before the was mm-hmm. A thing, right? Mm-hmm. We started about 50 years ago with a committee of That's amazing. Women and minorities. Yeah. Yeah. And which evolved to the board to become nowadays the Board of Representation, inclusion, diversity, and also we have a, for inclusion and diversity at the, kind of, at the governance level. And we have been doing a lot of good things, bringing together those communities. We have community women, of course, lgbtq. Mm-hmm. Hispanic, you know, everybody has a space at the end. Fantastic. At the same time. It's always good to actually take a critical step back and assess mm-hmm. And figure out whether all the things that we're doing and we keep doing because of inertia or because enthusiasm, et cetera. Number one, are we reaching our community? Are we having the impact? We, we have? Number two, where are we standing? What is our grade right now when it comes to, to equity and, and, and focusing on equity because it has both diversity, belong justice, everything under that

Alexis 54:03

umbrella. It's the umbrella term. It is the beyond it's

Stella 54:05

umbrella. Yeah. And then what are our blind spots? Mm-hmm. We don't know what we don't know. Right. And how are we going to find out? Yeah. So we are collaborating with the external consultants to run an equity assessment this year. Fantastic. It's in progress and it's going to be the baseline of everything that we are planning to do, the future. We're also engaging with a strategic plan for the society. So by the time the strategic plan starts, the equity assessment outcomes will be ready. And you know, for us, equity is a value. It's a core value. It's not like a thing or a program or one thing we need to do. No, no, no. Check a box or something. It's something that needs to permeate across every single program we have. And we're going to approach the outcomes of this equity assessment with humility and trying to kinda not be too defensive when we hear harsh truth. Because the bo, the bottom line is that we want to improve what we already doing. We want to be better, we wanna be stronger, we wanna build the society. The community that we want to mm-hmm. To see represented in sciences. Yeah. The represented

Alexis 55:12

us.

Stella 55:13

Yes. Yeah, exactly. So we wanted to, to build those safe spaces where everybody feels comfortable to come and interact and learn and grow and have fun. I mean, science is fun and feel proud of who we are and, and have the, the, the good conversations mm-hmm. And the difficult conversations. So that's an inspiration. I love it. We're hoping we're gonna make progress, so this is one of the things we're doing and we're going strategic process again. Another critical step back and CVA must pass the Covid era. Mm-hmm. Which hopefully we're in the past.

Alexis 55:51

I hope so. Yes. I post Covid era, hopefully. Yes. Because yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And I, I think that that initiative and that equity assessment and that strategic plan going forward, I think it's a, a wonderful mindset of what equity is, where you wanna go, what's your inspiration, and how it's gonna permeate, permeate through all of culture and every single aspect of the a m s because the a m s is so multifaceted and you guys do so many different things, but I think what's fantastic about that is that it's gonna help both the community help the community of a m s but also, your impact towards the community. Because you'll have a better holistic understanding and a holistic group of people doing that data and doing those decisions. But, I also think it's gonna help the science as well. You'll also probably get better science. So it's, it's a, a fantastic initiative and I, and I think that it's, something that's amazing to see from a society like a m s with, hopefully if you guys do this more, we'll follow Right. And we'll take you as the example.

Stella 56:54

That's, that's one of the things that we're hoping as well because, you know, we are all as professional societies, we all care about diversifying the voices of our, in our society to, to be more reflective of what's in, in, our communities. And usually the, the hard part is to get a, a neutral, what's the word I'm looking for? A neutral view of who we are and what you're doing. Because usually what happens is that we are inside the system and we are assessing our system. Yes. So as a scientist, you know what he need to be able to see the system from

Alexis 57:31

the outside, right? Yeah.

Stella 57:33

Yeah. So that's what we are attempting to do with this equity assessment, to actually see our system from the outside. And it's not only representation that we have in our, in our community, our membership, our community in general, but also our practices, right? Mm-hmm. We have all these documents and all these, policies and all these procedures. Are they equitable? We never had that particular lens. Yes. And some of them come, are like decades old and we've just been commending them. We've all kinds of things. So let's take another look at them. The world has changed. Are we really addressing everyone when we have those. Policies, are we keeping everyone safe? Mm-hmm. Is there something that we're missing? Actually, we know there's not missing. What are we missing? Yes.

Alexis 58:17

Yeah, completely. Where you start with that, where's our blind spot? Where exactly, yes, we know it exists, right? What's a blind spot?

Stella 58:22

And also, you know, how can we improve it? How we move it forward. And for us, it's, the outcome is not gonna be just a, a binder that you're gonna put on a bookshelf and leave it there. It's like, you know, okay, now we did an assessment. Yay. It's some, it's a baseline for us to measure against ourselves every year moving forward. So we're gonna be going through that process every four to six years. And actually we assess ourselves as in, okay, so we have those goals. How successful have we been? What was the challenge along the way? What kind of resources we keep Needing, et cetera, et cetera. So it's, I'm really excited about that. Oh, I'm really looking forward to seeing the, again, see the

Alexis 59:04

answer. What's the answer? A hundred To see the data

Stella 59:08

Yes. And see the, how that is going to affect the future of dms. We have a lot of work to do. We're doing a lot of good work. Yeah. And it's based on the effort of, as there's an army of volunteers Yeah. At the a s and of course, amazing staff. I have telling my colleagues. Amazing.

Alexis 59:28

Yes, a hundred percent.

Stella 59:29

And at the same, so we're just it moving. That's

Alexis 59:33

amazing. And I, I love to hear that. I love that. That's the initiative. I wish you nothing but the best. I can't wait for your data to come back to you. I'm excited to see what it's gonna look like in the next five years and just to keep, keep tabs on it and to see where you guys are gonna go. I think that's, that's so amazing. And, I know kind of maybe the last one and. This is our, our last question, and maybe it's a little bit of a lofty question, but if you could take this energy of, of the equity assessment and the future of the a m s, where would you see maybe the future of meteorology or the future of astronomy? Where would be kind of your hope for the future of the industry as a whole? Where would you hope that we go?

Stella 1:00:16

I hope that we'll stop having the equity discussion sometime in the future. Mm. Because the norms have changed and we all played nicely, and we respect each other in our interactions and we include each other in our projects, in our lives. I know that it's overarching and you know, I I, I've been in the working in the equity world one way or another for the last 25 years. Right. And there are people who have been involved much, much more. Than I have and we're still having the same discussions. Yeah. Still having the same question. It's still, it's like it's exhausting, but you know, you have to keep forward. Yeah. I want us to stop having those discussions because we don't have to anymore. Mm. And that is going to improve science immensely because diversity of opinions, diversity of voices, diversity of ways of thinking mm-hmm. Is what science needs in order to be more innovative, in order to, to take into account all parameters, in order to actually strengthen itself and come up with solutions, with models, with, recommendations. Even with person influencers, right? Yes. We need the right role models for these younger individuals who are there and they're to see a person who looks like them and speaks like similar background being successful. So it's, That's what I'm hoping for all sciences for that matter. Mm-hmm. For all aspects of our society. Now we all live on the same planet. It's it is one system. Yes. One system. There is, so there's Southern Hemisphere. We're not bound by manmade boundaries. We need to take care of it. Mm-hmm. And, you know, one of the things that astronomy has, has taught us and the, the whole exploration of space is that Earth is a very unique place. Mm-hmm. I mean, right now a big theme in, space exploration is looking in our own solar system to find. Find earth like conditions for life. Yes. Yes. Let's look at life somewhere else. Has it evolved? Doesn't it have a chance? And you know, in people's dreams, we have colonized the moon colonized Mars. Exactly. Alternative to go there. We even went to Europe mean if you want, if you like ice skating, go there. Canada moves to apa. Small detail that doesn't have. But the same, the closes, Actually the closest star to our solar system that hosts a planet like the Earth in the habitable zone, star is at least 25 trillion miles away. Wow. Oh my goodness. There's no Earth 2.0. Wow. This plan is so unique, so unique that we really need to protect it. And this plan is our responsibility actually. So we really need to make sure that, as we benefit From its beauty and its food and its nurturing, and everything else, we'll leave it to other generations in the future to benefit from it as well. Hmm. So that's why I think this is where the a's role is very critical. To provide all the parameters that we need, models, information science, so that we can actually come up with educated decisions for our quality of life and also for our politic politics. Right? Yes. People affect politics. Yeah. And actually demand a green planet a better care, take care of our planet and make sure that we. Are building something we can lead to future generations without feeling missing, you know? Yeah.

Alexis 1:04:13

No, what an, what an amazing answer, Stella. And thank you so much for that. And I, I love that call out of how Special Earth is because I do think that that's something that you'll probably gripe with in the movies that you see colonization of Mars and Colonization of the Moon and, and people think that it's gonna be within our lifetime, that you could go and you can live on Mars and, and to have that reference from someone like yourself to be like, look, this is how far away it is that the next one that could be either similar to Earth. We really have one shot here and this is it and we need to take

Stella 1:04:45

care of it. And you know, you look at movies, right? Mm-hmm. The way they depict the colony of the moon, the colony of Mars, and it's actually, it's really very impressive. Mm-hmm. You know, you cannot jump around and different and so exciting, but they look like love. Yes, they do. Where can you find a forest? Right? Where can you go swimming? Where can you swimming in the swimming pool, whatever. Mm-hmm. Where can you go swimming in the ocean? Where can I actually drive through, wildlife mm-hmm. And see, you know, a deer right in front of you. Where can you breathe the air, look up in the sky and see its beauty. Mm-hmm. Right. This plant is amazing. And even seeing what, what, ization have, left for us, this is a, we are the species. We're an amazing species. And we are capable for great goods and for, a lot of, innovation and culture and beauty, but we are also capable for a lot of instruction. Yes. And this is where we really need to be a little be careful. Yeah. So even if we had a colony on the moon or Mars, I'm not really sure I would be interested in living there. Cause Yeah. Why should I, I haven't, I haven't been to, to Africa yet. Yeah. I wanna go back to New Zealand. Yes. You know, I love my home country, Greece. Yeah. And, you know, I want to explore Europe more and the United States such a beautiful, beautiful, and diverse when it comes to landscape, place. And I have been to Canada. I have actually family in Toronto. Oh, absolutely Adore. Oh, I love it. Yeah. So it's, it's one of those things that, you know, I can't have enough of this planet. Yes. Go somewhere.

Alexis 1:06:28

I love that. And I, I love that energy of it because agreed, I wanna go to Greece. I've never been to Greece. I wanna see. Sure. See, yeah. I wanna see the, like, biodiversity. I wanna see the Northern Lights again. I've only seen them once, so I would love to

Stella 1:06:39

see that again. Haven't seen them. I wanna see the Northern Lights. How have you never seen them? At least not north enough. Enough, I guess. But, but you, that's your job. You should go see

Alexis 1:06:51

the Northern Lights.

Stella 1:06:53

I know, I know. So, you know, there's so much we can experience here. Yeah. I want to taste different foods and I want meet different people and ask them questions about their lives and aspirations. I don't wanna go live on Marcy. It would feel like I'm, I'm in, rat lab.

Alexis 1:07:10

Oh yeah. I would feel like I was back at work. I would feel like I was on a boat again. It's very sterile. Very sterile. Living on a lab. And there's nothing wrong with it. But that's not where I wanna live most of my life. Not in a lab. There you go.

Stella 1:07:22

Same here. Same here.

Alexis 1:07:24

Well, Sal, thank you so much and thank you for a wonderful answer on both the d e I and kind of where the future of where you want that to be and that, that we've moved past it and then also, the future of protecting this world and kind of the future hope of the a m s and being able to have that impact in protecting this world. And just thank you for the, for your time. This was a lovely interview. It was so nice to meet you. I learned so much. I hope people listening also learn so much. I know that they did. And just thank you again for coming out on the show. I appreciate it immensely. It's a

Stella 1:07:57

great pleasure for me as well, and thank you for giving me this opportunity and thank you for a lovely chat. What a wonderful time to, you know, wonderful way to spend once afternoon. Right? I

Alexis 1:08:08

couldn't agree more. I loved it. I'm gonna rave about this forever. I have so many things to Google. I am probably gonna email you a million times being like, what about this star? What about that? So, apologies for your inbox.

Stella 1:08:22

Anytime. Anytime.

Alexis 1:08:24

Oh, amazing. Well, thank you so much and thank you guys for listening. This was The Smoko podcast. Please tune in next week. Thank you again, and bye, Stella. It was absolutely lovely talking to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye guys.