Alexis 0:00

So, hello everybody and welcome to the Smoko Podcast. My name is Alexis Armstrong, your host. Nice to meet you. The Smoko Podcast is a place to celebrate and highlight women working within stem and trade occupations. So please tune in, take a break, join us. We're on Smoko, and today we are, very, very lucky that we're joined by the lovely Cheang. She is a living legend in the scientific ocean drill. Yes, she is. Don't do that reaction. She's, I'm not there yet. Okay. A legend li living. Okay. Living legend. A legend in the scientific ocean drilling, world. She has worked with A O D P I O D P and I O D P, so Ocean Drilling Program, integrated Ocean Drilling Program, and the International Ocean Discovery Program. She is a chemical oceanographer herself with a bachelor's and a master's To prove it, she has worked for years aboard the Glower and the Jodis resolution. She's not, not

Chieh 0:54

Gomer, not Glower, she's just a, just the, just the Jodis, just the JR.

Alexis 0:57

Oh, sorry. I thought you were also

Chieh 0:59

on the Glomar too. No, no. The Glomar was demoed in 1984. Oh shit. Sorry.

Alexis 1:05

Yeah. Well that's my bad. Just the JR. But still around the world. I'm not that old. Still around the world. She sailed around the world. She's done so many marine expeditions. I think the last time I asked you this question, I think it was like 10 years of your life had been spent sailing aboard the jr. And so we're gonna talk all things oceanographic, cruises and scientific ocean drilling and her time working as a laboratory officer for the I O D P. So chay, thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate it. Chay also was my old boss too, so she had to, to to, to take care of me when I first joined the program and I was a hooligan on board. So it's really nice to see you. You did great.

Chieh 1:48

We love to have you back. Oh

Alexis 1:50

wait, yeah. The pro. Yeah. Chay for our first question, to start us off, could you kind of walk through how you ended up becoming a Marine technician because you've been a marine tech since the nineties and your story. It started as an undergraduate in Taipei, and then it ends now as a laboratory officer for the I O D P in College Station, Texas. So could you kind of walk through how you went from Taipei to Texas and how that happened? Okay. Well,

Chieh 2:18

first thanks Alexis for inviting me on on this, this, uh, podcast if you would. I'm not used to being interviewed, so just bear with me. So I went to, a, a uni, university called, Chinese Culture University in Taipei, in the eighties and studied marine biology. And, after I graduate, I decided to come to Uni United States, go to graduate school. And I. Picked, Oceania at Texas a and m. You kind of wonder why there's Oceania in that inland school. Yeah, I asked that question too, but, I kind of, it was, it was kind of a, a, luck, I guess, if you would. I was going to study marine science, and actually a and m has a branch at Galveston. They do marine science. Mm. But for some reason I picked Ocean, so a and m in conversation. But, my advisor, you know, gave, gave me some choices and, so for my master, thesis, I. Did a radioactive tracer for a, micro organism called the cocoli forest. Trying to, to, to study if they uptake this material that cian, phosphate. But, but anyway, that's a whole different story. But while I was here, I had a com a member, on my thesis, she was a postdoc to, my advisor. And so I was kind of her first on official graduate student field with I followed her around for two years and, she ended up, got a job with. O DP at the time, ocean Drilling Program. And ODP at the time, they offer a lot of, student, symposium. So if you are a graduate student, you can propo, write a paper, put a poster up or give a speech. And they do that every semester. So I was able to attend that, and then I found out about Ocean Drilling Program through that, and I was like, Ooh, great. Selling on the ship, you know? And the funny thing is, the director at the time, his name is Phil Rewa, he had a sign up sheet in his office for all the graduate students from geoscience. So oceanography, geology, geography, that if you wanna sell on the ship as a temp tech, you can put your name down. Yeah. So it's, oh, I'll do that. So for three years, and it never called me. Really? I

Alexis 4:39

didn't know that. I had no idea. Didn't call you.

Chieh 4:42

Nobody called me and, and, and I was graduating, so I was looking for a job. Yeah. And, So my, my, mentor, you have to a question later, so I answered that already. It's Marta. Yeah. Marta. Marta Torres. Anyway, Mar said, so she introduced me to Brad Johnson and another person named Dennis, who's kind of in charge of a technician at the time. So I went to them and say, I'm looking for a job. They say, oh, we don't have any opening. I said, that's okay. Here's my resume. So I went on and, but that semester I was, I was doing some sample analysis for Marta in the lab back here, and one day, Dennis came back and said, Hey, Chay, if you have time, come see me. So, okay. So I finished what I'm doing, this I think is October or something. Went to see him and he brought in another guys who just sitting in the office and chit-chatting. And about 10 minutes into, I realized this is a job interview.

Alexis 5:37

It's so typical. I already, I know, like

Chieh 5:40

they were just telling me about the ship. This is what happened on the ship. This is what you do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, why are they telling me, oh, you, you're hiring?

Alexis 5:48

Yeah.

Chieh 5:49

Oh, the next last thing that says, when can you sell?

Alexis 5:52

You're like, what? Excuse me. They're like, yeah. Cause I

Chieh 5:54

went, I need a graduate first. You know? But anyway, that's how I got

Alexis 5:59

hired. I love it. It's just, it hasn't changed, right? Like it's still kind of that attitude of like, well now

Chieh 6:06

it's still a little bit more official. True. But you know, you know, when you hire, we have to ask you all this sets of questions, but still, you, you realize we tell you more about us than you tell us more about you. Right?

Alexis 6:18

Yeah. As it's happening, you're like, oh, should I, am I leaving tomorrow? Like, do I need to get my visa? Like where, here's my clothes. Like what is

Chieh 6:26

happening to me? We're gonna book you a ticket right now.

Alexis 6:28

Now. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That was your interview. That's so typical and so funny.

Chieh 6:34

And yeah, so it, and it's really funny that everybody got hired later. I think one of the most common complaint, if it was, oh, they didn't gimme any notice. I only had two weeks. Notice this. I'm like, yes, for everybody. Welcome. Two weeks. You're lucky.

Alexis 6:51

Yeah, exactly. Back in the day, I feel like it was like literally off the dock, like just yelling at people in San Diego to be like, do you wanna come on this ship for two months at a time? Right. Like, yeah. It was complete pirates. So

Chieh 7:03

yeah, that's how I got it into the job. And So, you know, you, you'd probably experienced yourself after about three years or so. You get, you start getting this, we call it burnout. You just burn out because you go on this ship two months, you go home for two months, go to the ship for two months. And for you guys you were, at least CFLs you get to go home. Yeah. And when I was hired, there was no cfl. So everybody come to the office and, so you, you really get burned out. So completely about three years, I was, you know, I hated going to the ship. I didn't wanna go, I wanna leave so bad. I look for a job. And rude awakening is, is, I, I actually got a job offer. And I said, okay, you, you know, we're gonna pay you this much and you get two week pay vacation. And that's when I say, what, what do you mean that's it? Like whole year, two week pa that's it. But I don't need to go to Taiwan, I to go through this. I need to go this,

Alexis 7:58

I have so many bike trips to go on. I'm used to six months. What do you mean only two weeks? Yeah. That's how they get you. It is true. Yeah. It's one are the perks of being teched.

Chieh 8:09

Even even for us who's not CFIs, we get, you know, we get compensation time, we get vacation time and, and you know, we get tickets or go to the port and get tickets to come back from the Indian port. If you wanna travel, think the airline ticket is paid. Right? Yeah. So you just have to pay in between. And, yeah. So I was just like, what, what? So I went home, had a, had a really. I don't know how to describe it. You know, like, moment. Yeah, yeah. Literally like a rude awakening. It's like, oh my, you know. So when I went back to ship, I realized, you know, and, and, and the thing is, during that one year I was looking for jobs. I would always come back to our job advertisement. You know, for, for our marine tech. And then you look at it and like, that's what I wanna do. Yeah. Oh, wait, I already have that job.

Alexis 8:58

You're like, I'm, that's actually me already. That's actually, it's still my dream job. I keep up with coming back to it. Yeah. That, that's, that's who I

Chieh 9:07

am. Yeah. So then I had a manto, adjustment big time. And I realized, you know, this is the job I want. Yeah. This is what I really like to do. I really enjoy what I'm doing. So once I had that mental change, it wasn't too bad anymore. Yeah. Ever since, I mean, you have moments as that, what am I doing here? You know, but Oh, totally. But that, I think that happened to everybody. Any, any job, any everywhere. So I

Alexis 9:31

agree. I think that's just a human experience thing. Yeah. That like, occasionally you're like, what is happening to me? But I I, I love that you love your job and I love that it's also like a love of the lifestyle and being like, yep, this is what I wanna do. And I also love how your story is so serendipitous in El way, but it's also so like beautiful of meeting someone like Marta who had such a big impact and like, that's such a serendipitous thing. But then she introduces you to one thing and to one person. I also love that Phil didn't call you for three years. That's hilarious. In hindsight,

Chieh 10:04

be careful

Alexis 10:05

what you dream wish for. That's crazy that that didn't happen for three years and then you still ended up on the ship. Like, yeah. I, I just love the whole story of it and. I think we've, we've already kind of talked a little bit about I O D P, but could you, maybe, if people don't know the program or don't know O D P or an I O D P, could you describe what the program is, its mission and purpose, and then what is your role as a laboratory officer within the I O D

Chieh 10:31

P? So the program started, so deep sea journaling program. Scripts, San Diego, yeah. Scripts. So actually I think the whole story, if you, I think on our website, there's a whole history, page of it. You can read about it. So they, bunch of scientists are exploring the, the idea of, plate tectonic. And they have hypothesis, but they can't prove it at the time. And this is 1950s. that's when the seismic, I think the seismic kind of developed from, from it.

Alexis 11:03

World

Chieh 11:04

War ii. From, yeah. Right. Yeah. So they start having so notice they can kind of map the balcony ocean before that. There's no way they don't know what's going on down there. Right. So that's kind of, kind of go into, and this group of scientists eventually, kind of funding to contract a ship called the Corona Challenger. And they, fix, Derek on it, and they were able to kind of, preliminarily guessing if you would where they think play Tetons happening. So if you're not familiar with play Taana, basically the entire, surface of earth, if you would including Bomb, the Ocean is all on a certain kind of, Plate and this plate kind of move around because if you think about the, the mental of the earth, it's, it's liquid. Yeah. So, so all these things kind of floating on this top on TV duty liquid, they, they move. Well just think about California, right? Yes. Yeah. Most of people know they, Andrea, oh, what's it called? St. Andreas Sans. It's a plate. So, so, LA and San Francisco on some on plate, and they're moving this way. And on the other side of Pacific, there's a, a seas island, if you would call, from Japan, Taiwan, Philippine, Indonesia. It's called Ring of Fire. Those are the plate, two places going like this. Yeah. So they push everybody up. Yeah. Okay. So then you have all this folk volcano, and that's the plate. So the different plates, So that's what, that's how they started. They went out for the MOHO project. They were trying to drill, that was the first one. Yeah. Yeah. They're trying to drill holes or drill course to see where all the separation area is. And they proved it over the years. So officially the first, I think Lake one in 1968 if I, yeah, I think that's

Alexis 12:49

right.

Chieh 12:50

I think, yeah. And, and that program went on since 1984. And then the program moved to Texas a and m in 1985 and changed them to ocean drawing program. I joined 1991, so I never seen the Challenger.

Alexis 13:06

Yeah. Apologies. No, no, no problem.

Chieh 13:08

No. That's so Jr. Was, there were two ship used to call psycho bp. Four seventy one and 4 72. That's the length of the name. Shame. Yeah. Well, it's, it's easy to remember. Yeah. 4 71, it's 471 feet long and I'm, I'm pretty sure 4 72 is also 471 feet long. But they're, they built two, the second of it Inco, right? Yeah. Twin, twin ships in the seventies for oil exploration. But then kind of the oil business won Kapu in the eighties. Yeah, that's when, ODP started. So they contract one the ship, and the ship was built in Canada, actually in Halifax. Yeah. Right. They went to, mobile, no, Alabama. Alabama, somewhere to refit. So, The Jr initial during O D P, the lab is kind of add-on. If you think of, think about a big container, they turn it upside down or on the vertical and bolt it on the ship. That's the lab

Alexis 14:14

shoebox added on top of the jr.

Chieh 14:17

So the whole project from,, D S DP to O D P, then I think 2003 we change into international Ocean drilling. Oh, sorry. Integrated ocean drilling program. Yeah. That's when Japan, US and Europe, kind of three parts, they kind of equally contribute. That went on for about 10 years and then now we changed to International Ocean Discovery program. Cuz apparently drilling is not

Alexis 14:43

a, yeah. It had a bad word all of a sudden. So we changed it to discovery. Yeah.

Chieh 14:47

Yeah. I think that's when, that rig exploded, right? So Deep sea,

Alexis 14:50

horizon, I think. Horizon, yeah. Wasn't it during that time? Yeah.

Chieh 14:53

Yeah. So they, they changed the name to Ocean Discovery program. But overall we still, it's a drilling ship, so we drill sediments and, and, hot rock course. We retrieve course back to the ship, and we usually have about 20, 30 scientists every exhibition and there have different expertise from scit pathologists, paleontologists, geochemists. Now we include almost every recruits a microbiologists now. Yeah. So they basically, like everybody study a part of the course and they put their story together and they're trying to find out, if you just use one sentence like history of Earth. How,

Alexis 15:33

how that's a good way to do it. That

Chieh 15:34

here. Yeah. Right. So we study, we still study, play tectonic. We still, how fast they move. Now, we also go to, Arctic and Antarctica to study how, how fast ice sheet move. And how fast they retreat. Because the global, maybe I shouldn't say that. Global warming. No, it's true. It's

Alexis 15:54

true. Climate, climate, climate change. Yes.

Chieh 15:56

Yeah. So, and then those are very interesting. It's like a tree ring, if you would. Every time, every season the ice sheet come out. Retreat, come out, retreat. Yeah. Come out, retreat. It's beautiful to see when they retreat. Yeah. When they melt, they have drop stones because when they froze, they take something from the land, come ice, and they melt and they melted. Everything that was trapped was settled down to Valley Ocean. So when we get this core vertical core, you think about like a recording. It says layers and layers. Layers of recording what happened in atmosphere. So in the, in the open ocean, you still have particles in the air, right? So I mean, like you can tell your audience like, every week you have to clean your house. Why? Because you got sediments. Yeah. Accumulate particle on your desk. Yeah. On your tv. And think about that's happening everywhere, right? Also in the open ocean, you've got particles. There's much slower obviously But there's still settle it, you know, going water to try us. And it still settles. Yes. It's still settles. So we, we retrieve all this cord. They're just like tree rings. You can study layers by layers. What happened? And a lot of chemical and physical characters, like magnetic fields or a certain type of isotope ratio. All this information trapped in those particle when they settle down. Yeah. So, When we got those core, the scientists with the help with the instrument, we can determine, oh, here's the magnetic fill. It's this way, that way. Or certain, elements that is happening more this area or less. Or the microfossil, you know, we have different species, they die out, why they dial out

Alexis 17:36

or they have a pool. There's just so much information that we can tell, much information, we can tell the entire environment. And that signature, we can put it to time, to geologic time. We can put it to changing like ice sheets, like Chase said. It's basically like a snapshot of time Oh yeah. Of ocean sediment.

Chieh 17:51

Oh, so much information. Yeah. Yeah. We just spent, my last cruise was in the, agency by Oh, cool. Greece. Yeah. Gorgeous. And we were, we were studying, volcanic, eruptions. Right. And those are more recent eruption. Cool. We actually spent a whole week in the, in the Centi cordera. Whoa. That's,

Alexis 18:08

How about that? That's super cool. That's it.

Chieh 18:10

Yeah. And, unfortunately, the. And we have recovered hundreds and hundreds of meters of palm. Oh yeah. It's crazy. And that's awesome. And palm, it's really hard to recover because they fall in, they're so light, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You think about you, you, you put a metal pipe down, try to retrieve them as soon as you go in, they, everybody fought in and the pipe gets stuck.

18:32

Yeah.

Alexis 18:32

I could see Geraldine into that being like a compass. It's not an easy thing to do. No. I could see, I, I don't think I've ever seen PMUs drilled into, I don't think we have really got much PMUs on our hard rock. No. I can't think of why. Usually.

Chieh 18:45

Yeah. Yeah. And then you, you remember if we get a volcanic ash, they're like all sign password, right? Yeah. We have hundreds and hundreds meters of them. Wow.

Alexis 18:55

That's gorgeous. That's so beautiful to see. I've never seen anything like that. Yeah,

Chieh 19:01

that's It's amazing. Cool. Chay. It's amazing.

Alexis 19:03

Yeah. And Chase is also mentioned so many things too that we see within the core, like magnetic fields and chemistry and paleo paleontology. Like she was basically kind of walking through every single aspect of the lab. Cha's job was to manage the entire technical staff. So every single one of those labs kind of fell onto Cha's responsibility. Obviously, like there's a, a lab tech and a, a marine tech assigned to each lab. But we all report to Shay and Cha's job was to make sure that we, our machines were working correctly, that data was stored correctly, that we were getting acqui, adequate measurements, we were getting good data, we were maintaining quality, and then also that we weren't killing each other. And that we were all, all functioning. No fighting. Ok. No fighting, right? So it, so change has mentioned every single aspect of the COR because that was all falled into her, her, responsibility as lo.

Chieh 20:02

Yep. Yep, that's

Alexis 20:03

true. Yeah, it's true. It's a, it's, every single lab was basically, yeah. Yeah. Your

Chieh 20:08

job we're, we're human beings. So, so, you know, we, I don't know if we kind of mentioned, so on the ship we have kind of three groups of people, if you would, you know, one of the group is, technical support. And we all hired by I O D P, which we all paid by Texas a and m. So our job, like Alexis says, is to make sure all the instruments, so you, everybody has a assigned duty, if you would. You know, you could be assigned to a pale Mac lab or like Alexis, before your lab. You were on the description. Yeah. But before that you were in X-ray. Yeah. And we had things section, you know, we, we basically, grindy maybe is the right word. A rock to the point that is so thin that you can see on the, on the slide, you can see through different, it's like a

Alexis 20:51

glass plain

Chieh 20:52

almost, basically. So much. Yeah. Because minerals, if you think about all the rocks are made from minerals and they reflect to different lights of different ways, you know? Yeah. We have chemistry, technicians and we also have computer full, fully 24 hour computer support. We have two electronic technician. They work on electronic, anything. Everything.

Alexis 21:12

Yeah. Anything

21:13

that

Chieh 21:13

breaks anything. Or bookshelf.

Alexis 21:15

Yeah, exactly. Our jack of all trades that are responsible for fixing everything that we break.

21:20

Yes.

Chieh 21:20

Yeah. Yeah. And now we have two full-time, programmers on board. Yeah. Because we have, a lot of softwares that we, we've created ourselves. Application, if you would, to run this insurance, because core processing is such a unique thing. You don't get it too many places. We definitely is in a large scale because on the cruise, I think you were on that cruise. We, we almost got 7,000 meters of course, right?

Alexis 21:45

Oh, that was gross. Yeah. I hated that cruise. That cruise was disgusting.

Chieh 21:49

Yes. So the course coming out every 20 to 30 minutes core on that corn on that corner. Yeah. And there every core, you got it. Process, you know, curation. We got cut and we run 'em through a different instrument as a whole run. And they would split them and then get 'em out. And worse for the technician, now you have to pack it up, box it, move it downstairs, you know, it's

Alexis 22:07

a logistical nightmare.

Chieh 22:09

Nonstop. Yeah. Nonstop. Yeah. It's very physically demanding, that's for sure. And also even, even just without that, you, you, you stuck on a shift for two months, you know, 60 days that you were saying earlier, trying not to kill each other, but, you know, we're human beings. We gonna have conflicts and disagreements. A

Alexis 22:27

hundred percent bad, bad mood day. It's just part of it. Like some days you're just like, whoop, don't talk to Alexis today. Or like, like, like, it's just, and maybe this goes into our next question, Shay, is like, what was your favorite aspect or what's your favorite aspect of working as a marine tech? And then like, what's something that's challenging? Maybe it's making sure that we don't kill each other on board, is what's challenging, I don't know,

Chieh 22:52

is true. You know, managing instrument is a lot more easier than managing people. Yes. A hundred percent instrument is. Pretty much a hundred percent predictable. Sure. You're gonna have sometimes a breakdown. You know why. Yeah. But eventually we'll find out why. Because of the machine. Right.

Alexis 23:08

So, exactly. And we've also designed most of them from scratch, like you were saying. Like there are babies that we've created, we've created the program, we can eventually fix it. Yeah,

Chieh 23:16

yeah. And, but people, you know, just everybody's different. Everybody has different background, different personality. We like to, as, as a, when you asking what's the favorite part of my job is, it's really diversity. You know, it's not just the job itself, it's people. It, it is kind of funny. When I first become assistant lab officer, I hated dealing with conflict. Because, you know, if, if I tell you to do something and you have a bad day, so I don't wanna do it. And I just, it, it just eat. Drove you crazy. Eat no, eats me alive. Yeah. Aw. You know, and say, how do I deal with this? How do I, how am I gonna, well, yeah. You know, I don't wanna talk to her today. You know, she's not my favorite person anymore. She doesn't, so it's, it's for, and you just gotta remember, yeah, we didn't, we didn't go to school to learn managing people. No. We

Alexis 24:07

didn't learn science and like rocks too. Like, we're there because we just all had rock collections and we're like, oh, we just thought these were cool, man. That's it. Yeah.

Chieh 24:15

Yeah. So then I, I, you know, I took a lot of, leadership classes and then I realized, you know, I, take it as a challenge. How do I get you to do what I want you to do? And then actually it's accomplished me if I able to do it. Yeah. You know, if I'm not, I'll try to find a way and then that become again, it's, It's an interesting thing to do. And I, I tried to tell all the new, assistant lab officer, you know, I, I see. I see all of 'em went through the same thing, you know, just like can't handle it because all this people are so hard to, to some, some people are really challenging. But then I try to tell 'em, I say, no, don't, don't let that bother you don't take it personally. Your job is to make sure they do their job. Yes. So how do you make sure they do their job and how do you make them see this is what you need to do. Yeah. That's important. And to see you guys. Grow into that job and grow, become mature out of it. Yeah. Well, I'm like, oh,

Alexis 25:16

hey. Yeah, do it. Oh, a hundred percent Chay. Like, I think about when I first started, I'm like, that's why I said at the beginning I was like, Chay had to deal with me as a hula again. I think I was like a 26 year old punk kid that thought I knew everything. Right. You're not the only one. No. I could see a lot of joy there of like feeling an accomplishment, I think is what I'm trying to say, is of seeing someone grow and become better at their job and better as a human being and like more themselves through your management and also learning how to manage people. Effectively and better and letting things not bug you as much with like internal conflict because it's a hard job that you live and work with the people that work for you. Like, I couldn't imagine having all of your employees that also have to see you at 5:00 AM when you go to the gym and like when you just wanna watch your TV and they'll be like, at your door. Exactly. Locked your door. Yeah. They'd be like, so and so was mean to me. And you're like, I honestly can't do it with you right now. Like, please, this is my one hour by myself. Right? Like it's, I, I couldn't imagine how it would be like to be a manager in that position and just, it's, it's difficult, but when you get it right, I could see it being really, really fulfilling.

Chieh 26:31

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's same thing as me growing, right? Yeah. Is is that I realize I, I don't, you just don't take it personally. Yeah. They're not really hating you.

Alexis 26:42

No, not at all. They,

Chieh 26:44

they're probably hating this whole situation, I'm pretty sure. You know, so how do we, how do we help you guys? Yeah. To, to see, to get out of it. And then, you know, I, I don't know if you remember, I told everybody who, who first, you know, sell and said, you have to find a way to release that stress. Because it is a stressful job. Completely. You know, you know, whatever you need to do, you need to lock yourself in the room for an hour. That's fine. Yeah. You know, or go to the gym or go to the hella and scream your head off. Yes.

Alexis 27:13

Figure it

Chieh 27:13

out. Just yeah. Don't, just don't fight. Yeah. Don't take it out on other people. The number

Alexis 27:18

rule, one rule is no fighting, but like Yeah. I, I think that's true too, because you don't know how stressful of a job it is. And like, I, I remember you telling me that, but I also remember me being like, yeah, yeah, whatever. It's not that stressful of a job and then like, a couple of months in and you're like, pulling out your hair. Exactly. Like, huh. Like, I, I haven't seen land forever. And it's just, it takes a little bit to, to kind of get used to, I guess. I don't know. Yeah,

Chieh 27:46

yeah, yeah. So, you know, I, I, I enjoyed it. Yeah. You know, and especially, you know, like I said, watching you guys, you know, kind of maturing into the job and say hey.

Alexis 27:58

Right. Or like doing a little technique to be like, oh, that's my technique, and open that box. I know where she learned that. Yeah. To be like, that's how I hold this tabler. Like it's the same I teach him. Well, yeah, exactly. Completely. And maybe check cuz you've been with the program for so long and like, have done this forever. Has there been any big difference from the program at the very beginning to the program that exists now? Is there something like, does the program looks completely different from when it started to now or is it basically the

28:29

same?

Chieh 28:30

Well, program wise, politically, we went through the. First phase of international, integrated ocean dis ocean drilling program. Yeah. That was, political nightmares because they were trying to have three parts contribute, same amount of money. Oh. And span same amount of money. Yeah. Which just didn't work. Yeah. But that's kind of beyond us. I mean, that's on the like national stage C administration part of it. Yeah. Yeah. On the ship. Okay. I kind of hate to say this, but I think it's the same thing for the world is, is this when this, you know, this harassment, well not harassment, but d ei Yeah. The diversity in equality comes in, in the old days, definitely people are, are locked rougher. Yeah. I could imagine. You, you have to really stand up for yourself. But yet it can be a lot of fun. Because there are things we got away with.

Alexis 29:29

Yeah. I mean, some of the stories of back in the day, you were like, I could not imagine that now. Like it was like cowboy science a little bit. Right. But

Chieh 29:37

it's, well, when I first sell on the ship, kind of answer one of your question about women. Yeah. There is fewer women, but there, there're always, you know, three or four of us minimum scientists too, there at least three or four of them, maybe sometimes more. And the captain I saw within really like women on the ship. And I have gone, I've experienced few others, you know, especially drove of four guys. Yeah. They're from pretty conservative, you know, area. And they were like, why, why are you out here? Oh, because you don't have a husband to take care of. Why? Yeah. Like, yeah, whatever. Yeah.

Alexis 30:13

And I'm never gonna have one of those, man.

Chieh 30:16

Yeah. But the funny thing, I'll tell you that, that we had this one guy, I was, I don't understand why you guys just not married and don't have children to take care of. And at the time the Texas governor was and Richard Mm. You know, she was great. Yeah. She was amazing. All for big city, Dallas Houston, San Antonio, El Paso City mayor is a female. And, Margaret Thatcher was the Yeah. Primary Diane

Alexis 30:43

lady.

Chieh 30:43

Yeah. So I was like, do you own a TV set? Do you watch tv?

Alexis 30:49

Where do you think you are right now? What year do you think that it is? Yeah. Like, do you think it's the 1950s? What's going on? Yeah.

Chieh 30:56

So anyway, so that's kind of, that changed a lot. But we, we were. Pretty rough. You sometimes I have to be careful because those days, you know, I would just say something back to them. And, and the thing is, in my opinion, 98.9% of the people are not, they're not there to do anything to you or against you or sabotage you. They just like, I don't understand why you're not, you're here. You know why? I don't understand why you as a female, why don't you get a secretary job or something, you know? Yeah.

Alexis 31:27

They're still extremely biased, but they're not gonna like be, they really,

Chieh 31:31

they're just confused because of background. They really just don't know. Yeah. They don't know. They don't understand it. Right. So I think it's actually good for them to see us being on the ship and we just do our job. Right. I mean, and I remember we had a tech, a female tech go on the cow wearing white leggings. And we'll take one look at her, we're like, are you here to work? Or are you here to look pretty? And she immediately change her outfit. Right. She realized, You know, that first core, your leggings gonna be ruined. Yeah. Yeah. Just the fact. Yeah,

Alexis 32:05

exactly. Like it's just not, nothing against you

Chieh 32:07

wearing pretty white

Alexis 32:09

legging, but it's just not the environment. Yeah. The environment

Chieh 32:12

was is gonna get on end. It's gonna ruined. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, it's, but nowadays, I mean it's, it, the job aspect of it doesn't really change. Ensure the instruments fancier, more accurate, more precise. Sometimes you'll need less time because all the sampler for some of the instruments. So, But I overall it's the same in a way. It's just the culture may be, yeah. The culture is quite different. The

Alexis 32:39

culture has changed. Yeah. And I think for the most part I think that's a good change. But some of the stories of like the wild parties and some of the, like the craziness that you guys used to get up to, I think is, yeah. Is definitely with like rosy tinted glasses. I love hearing those stories and I, I know I've asked you in another question which we'll get to in a little bit of some of those stories cuz they're my favorite. But I could see, yeah, the culture being the big change. And I think it's good that the culture has changed for the most part. We're still gonna get rough and tumble dudes and guys in, in ocean drilling. It is just part of it. But I think you're right that us being there and just being ourselves and them having to deal with seeing us do our job Yeah. And, and working will change hopefully some minds. Right. And like we'll have a bigger impact that we know. And for the next question, Shay like. There's always been, the thing with O D P and I O D P really is that there's always been a fair bit of women who have worked within the program. Like even back in the day, like you said, there was like four or five women, for like a staff of 20 or 30 back in the eighties, nineties. That's fantastic. Could you maybe speak to some of your early day mentors? I know you already mentioned Marta as being one of them. And could you speak to how they impacted your career when you were just starting?

Chieh 33:56

Yeah. I mean, just watching the female scientists coming on board, they do like whatever job is assigned to them. I have the privilege working with, one of the, she's my, I won't wanna say hearing, but I, you know I, I do admire her Mien. Kaner. You probably sell with her? She, yeah. Yeah. She's, she's, she's kind amazing, a godmother of, geochemistry in the United States, and she's from, Israel Uhhuh and her family were, you know, during the World War ii there, a lot of 'em were killed. Yeah. And she was part of the group that marched from, I think Poland or East Germany to Israel. Wow.

Alexis 34:34

I didn't know that. I didn't know Maria was part of that. She was pretty young.

Chieh 34:36

Oh my goodness. And for her to being a, a, a, I guess, Jewish woman, during that era She had to fight, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Every step away to get a hundred percent a professorship. Yeah. In uc, Davis, uc, San Diego. And be a leading role. At first she come across really demanding, You know, and, she will sit there and talk your ears off to get what she wants. And I think that's her, that's her strategy over the years that she developed. Yeah. I've seen her talking to a coachee for two hours to get a sample. She's gonna

Alexis 35:15

get exactly what she wants. Oh, hundred percent.

Chieh 35:18

She tell, talk to you and Taylor say, okay, take whatever you want. Like,

Alexis 35:21

I have had enough. Please, Miriam, leave me alone. Leave, have some peace.

Chieh 35:26

But the first time I saw with her, I asked a couple questions like, why do you wanna take sample this way? Why do you want analyze sample? That's that way it turn into like an hour class every day for the entire two months. That's amazing. Sit down, explain to me. You know, why we do it this way, why we do this analysis, what this element means, what this data means. And I learned so much. That's why Another thing I told all you guys is talk to your scientists. They're the expert. They know what they're doing. Talk to you. Oh, a hundred percent, yes. You know, talk to 'em. Sure, we can run the machine, but do you know what, why you're running that way? Why you're setting the, parameter this way? What, what data are you looking at? Got it. Right. So those, you need to talk to scientists. And, I learned so much from her and, and, And after a while, you kind of take her side that she has that charm, right? Yeah. Remember, remember

Alexis 36:19

Etan? Yes. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I forgot about it.

36:22

I,

Chieh 36:22

I told Etm, I said, just be careful going in there, but you know, she would charm you. And she did. She would ev every time Etan was, oh, Etti, can you fix this? Can you do this? Two hours later,

Alexis 36:35

I think she wants, I love him for that. She can say it. You're right. You were right. Well, also has the sweetest heart. Oh. Like he's a big teddy bear. Like he seems super grumpy and gruff, but he is like the nicest man. If he likes you, he's gonna fix everything. Oh. In your entire life. Right. And then, then

Chieh 36:51

she Yeah. Explained to them, yeah. You know, to you and said, why do I want it this way? And you're like, oh yeah, okay. Okay. And you take her side and you'll do anything. I will do anything for her.

Alexis 37:02

Yeah. I know. I. I, I love those type of people though, and I love those type of people when you meet them early on that just teach you so much. And also I think like have that attitude cuz it's such a boss attitude. Yeah. That you don't really see that often of like someone that brings you on their side, gets what they want. But desa in a really kind Yeah. Professional, amazing way. And is also just so good at what they do. She's amazing in geochemistry. Like there's a reason why. Yeah. Those

Chieh 37:29

are the fantastic old-fashioned, true chemists. Yeah. They're the one that explained to you why this element behaved this way. And when you run into another element, why does it behave that way? Oh, pure chemistry. Amazing chemistry. Yeah. They, they, they know of it and it'll teach you if you ask if you were willing to

Alexis 37:45

learn. Yeah. The brains behind that. Like I love meeting people like that, and I think they're just so powerful to have a mentor like that that teaches you everything and you can just sponge it up because they are, you're right, like they're scientists that come on board. We're in a really lucky position as a marine tech that we get to meet some of the best scientists in the entire world at the top of game. It's true. They're not all good. Like there's a couple sometimes that you're like, I don't think that's correct. Like, I know that's not correct. I know what that rock is, and that's not that, but that's okay. That happens for the most part. Like you do get these amazing people. Yes.

Chieh 38:21

Yeah. We're very

Alexis 38:22

lucky. Yeah, and that's very cool that you got to meet Miriam and Marta and that. Yeah. I, I always remember, I think you and Lisa Toes, I think, you guys organized it, that party that we met all of the old techs, the tech reunion. Yeah. Some of the women that I met during that tech reunion, they wild. Oh my God. They were wild. They were wild. They were like the deep sea drilling ladies. Yep. Like, and speaking to like, they've just, I'm always gonna remember that, like speaking to this one woman who is probably in her eighties. Tru Trudy. Trudy, yes. Trudy. Yeah. Yeah. And she was telling me about how the Russian National Guard was following them one expedition. And every single day she would walk out and she would flash them, her tits and then she would have her coffee. And I was just like, someone's grandmother was telling me this. And I was like, this is

Chieh 39:14

old. Well, let's think about you, think about this. Are the people in then sixties? Yes. They're in their 20 years old in the sixties. They're the, the. Bravos, if you would. And she was telling me, she has this other lady, I can't think of her name right now, they ship, went to Australia. They were down the Challenger. Mm. They got off and just spent two months exploring. That's crazy. And mean, this is way before internet or Yeah. Or travel agent. I said, how do you know where you going? I said, oh, you just ask the local, how do you know where you're staying? Oh, just Ask Loco. Ok. Yeah.

Alexis 39:46

The, the next, like, they're a different generation, right? Yeah. And like, I've always found those women and like one of the things about I D P that I love the most is you found those women and those mentors really early on, these like wild women. I still think that they exist. I still think you're a wild woman, Jay. Like you've biked all over the world. Like how many times?

Chieh 40:07

No, not yet. Not around the world. It's true. True.

Alexis 40:09

But still like parts of it. Right? Like I think that's been something that's really cool about the program, but I,

Chieh 40:14

yeah, I think that's also be that part of it attract you to this job. Is, is to there, you know, What is adventure? I have adventures. You go somewhere something or do something that's you don't know. Yeah, I know, right? So for some people, they would never step out to do that. If I, if I don't know, I, I would not eat this. Or if I don't know, I would not go there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know those women, they're pioneer. I, I was telling the truth, Alex, I enjoy so much. Yeah, me too. I that you guys are crazy.

Alexis 40:43

I like just, she was someone's grandma and she was just like, you know, I was just flashing

Chieh 40:48

my skin and they had so much. Yeah. That has so much fun talking about it. She, she

Alexis 40:53

still tell, she was just like the hit of the party and she was like, yeah. And then sometimes I would put Playboy magazines and containers and float them off and I would get vodka in return and I was like, oh my goodness. Judy like, yeah.

Chieh 41:09

And maybe

Alexis 41:11

this is the next one. Chay is like, cuz you yourself, you've have some crazy stories from being on the Jr. Like you've been to Antarctica as like one of the only scientists from the jar that got to go down to Antarctica and live in McMurdo. We were almost boarded by Pirates, which was absolutely crazy before my time. And then we also, the boat. Survived. Like the perfect storm, like the perfect storm from the movies in the North Atlantic, like barely survived. It almost went down. Could you talk to like some of the crazier moments of, are there a couple that like, live in your head that you're like, whoa, that was insane? Yeah,

Chieh 41:47

well, like, like the one you said, uhher the, lake 1 52 we're up in the, in that area already. That was two years prior to the perfect storm, and we ran into storm, but luckily we left before it happened. So in the Northern Atlantic, this actually happened every year. So, why it's called Perfect Storm. You, you get, the, not Typhoon what, hurricane h coming up? Yeah. From the equator on the east coast of the US and go out. But they, because the rotation of the earth and the, the land mass, a lot of storms form right there. Off coast Greenland. And then sometimes they come by and that's what's called a perfect storm. And that's what happened to us. Yeah. Yeah. We were drilling too close to land. Well say Too close where relatively, yeah, relatively about 20 miles or less. And it was like five meters or wa 500 meters of water. Shallow. Yeah. If we're in a deep ocean, might not be a big deal, right? Yeah. But you were so shallow knew. We knew there was a storm coming up, but we didn't know there was one form right on top of us. So the two combined, by the time we realized we can't move. Yeah. We had 200 meters of drill pipe still dangling below us. Oh my God. Yeah. We're allowing, right?

Alexis 43:00

Oh, and that takes forever to bring back up. And you can't move with it. You can't. Well

Chieh 43:05

we, we dropped it. We didn't Did you drop it? There was no way. Oh, they dropped it. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz we didn't wanna ground if we ground history. That's it. The ship, right? Yeah. So, we had 12 thruster. What they did is they put the thruster down, they dropped those pipe. Basic, we know where the shoreline is. So they basically turn the ship parallel to the shoreline and let the storm blow at us. So we were going, going backwards. But they used the thruster to keep, keep position. Yeah. So we basically turn ourselves into an iceberg. That's what they did. And I think that's, and just try to float it saved us.

Alexis 43:39

Yeah. That's really, that's smart. That's very, very couldn't for the captain. Well, wet. Yeah. You can't do anything in that storm. You can't outrun it. You can't try to like go against it. You just have to kind of take

Chieh 43:48

it. And we had two, radar at the time. And so what happened is the, the wave was so big, it was pounding the window on the bridge. And the, the water temperatures right around freezing. So it's, the sea water is not really water. It's slush. Yeah. They're a little, just like slushy, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I pound the, the window for 40 some hours and finally broke it. And, and it flooded. So scary. Yeah.

Alexis 44:14

Yeah. Twice.

Chieh 44:15

Oh God Happened twice. And so we were kind of just basically maintaining and, and the, who was it? Dan? I think it was Dennis, coast Guard. They came out to live for fishing boat and they found us. Oh my goodness. The escort. But then we had, we used to have little antenna and stuff. They were all gone. Yeah. We, everything was gone. No communication. Right. So we don't have the hand radio, I think, at the time, but they found us, they escorted us down to, I don't know how far they escorted down, but we went to Halifax. Wow. Like limping. Wow. I've never experienced the ship just literally limping And imagine the ship, but just like, There's no, I can't imagine that. No movement, there's no rhythm anymore because it was damaged and it was just, even the lookout, it's kind of calm. The shit was doing this number.

Alexis 45:06

Oh my goodness. I can't imagine like, even the video footage that I've seen of it, of like you guys in your survival suits or like people going against the storm outside to try to board up the bridge. To patch up the bridge, it just looks terrifying. I couldn't imagine being there with it. Right? Like everyone in survival suits everyone. No. Looks relat relatively normal. Like everyone looked like Not too

Chieh 45:29

freaked out. Well, the, that's the problem. Yeah, not a problem. I was so naive. I didn't know. I mean, I don't know how to run it. Operator a ship, right? Yeah. So you, and then you know, that captain's not gonna do anything stupid because she, he wanted lift too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're you literally that same, we're on the same boat. That's true.

Alexis 45:50

And, we're all going down if we go down. Yeah,

Chieh 45:52

exactly. Yeah. So, you know, so they took care of it. And I, I just remember, I think my shock was, like I was telling you earlier, the, the osha, the, lab stack goes like a kind of, if you think of a container, turn it on top of it vertical. Yeah. So on one side, there's a stair go up to the ManTec, I think no main deck go up to the Foso deck. Mm. And there was where it boated, and I, I remember after the storm, we were on my way back to, Halifax. I was going through there and it just looked different to me. That bo there's that layer. Yeah, probably I would say maybe three meters long. So is is is the Cushing and the boats were gone.

Alexis 46:40

That's insane.

Chieh 46:42

So you see light coming through on the side of the wall and I was sitting there going, what? What is happening? Different? Like, why is that light coming? Then I realized that holy movie,

Alexis 46:53

holy shit, we almost lost that. Yeah.

Chieh 46:55

There was like, Six boats are

Alexis 46:57

gone. Oh my God. Like, that's crazy

Chieh 47:01

to see. And that's why I realized, and the, the entire time we were in the lab sack, yeah, sure. It's rough. We couldn't do anything. You know, it's, it's, this is beyond sea, right. You know that va commercial, everybody's walking sideways. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. You walk this way, walk this way. Because the should just,

Alexis 47:16

I can't imagine that. Yeah. Because like even then, sometimes rough seas, like everyone walks sideways or like holds onto a walk. You, you go upstairs. Wait. Yes, exactly. You right. Yeah. But like, it's true too. You, you probably had no communication, so you probably didn't know it was the perfect storm or how bad it was until you came in and then being like, oh, you guys are so lucky you guys survived. And then you're like, holy shit. That I didn't even realize we were limping and fighting for it.

Chieh 47:43

I remember we came into Halifax, there was a, canal, I guess. So we were selling in a canal and you, I mean, it's, it's a canal so you've gotta land on both sides and the ship's still doing this. Oh my god. And I was like, could you stop moving already?

Alexis 47:57

Can please get us? I need to get off now. Yeah. Please, please help us. Yeah. My God. And maybe cuz we're almost at top of an hour chase, so I just Sure. One or like a couple last ones, but one of the last ones is because you've been on this forever and so many cool things have come out of this program, is there something, instead of like crazy memory, but like for a scientific or for findings, is there something that sticks in your head that you're like, that was so cool that I gotta be part of seeing all of those ash layers from Greece that you were just talking about or like, or going down to Antarctica or anything like that? Yeah. I

Chieh 48:34

mean, one of the thing was the KT boundary that we, we recover. Right. Of course, I think it was Carolina. I can't remember what cruise it was. I think I wrote it down somewhere. There you go. Yeah, I think it was 1 71 b, I can't remember what year it was, but, so they, you, you know, the KT boundary, they basically prove the metro Metro Impact. Impact Yeah. To the Yoko 10 and sent out all these ashes. And then the, the Earth I think was dark

Alexis 49:05

for Yes. For like 500 years. Yeah. 500 years or some crazy number. Yeah. Yeah. Iridiums.

Chieh 49:11

And that's when, yeah, that's when dinosaur OSA dinosaur thing. And stuff. And I remember one of the paleontologists was showing me right before this impact, there was a, I think it's a, it's a forum. No, it's not a forum. Maybe it's a coli that has established so many horns and Yes. Yeah. All of their like decorative slaves thing, excretion, calcium, carboning. And then the impact hit after that for about, you know, couple meter, couple of centimeter, which is 500 meter, 500 years on the sh on the, on the earth. There's nothing, right? We think that, and after that, you start seeing single simple organisms start

Alexis 49:56

over again. Yeah. A whole nother, because it was a huge extinction event. Yeah. Like it's a ginormous extinction event in earth history, and then like a restart of the planet basically. Yeah. With that. That's really cool to see. That was, that

Chieh 50:07

was really cool. Yeah. That was really, really cool.

Alexis 50:09

I, I would love to see that. Yeah. The one that always sticks out for me, just even though we didn't get that much material, do you remember when we drilled into the, volcano off the coast of New Zealand? Do you remember that one? Oh yeah. Yeah. That one always sticks for me because I think that's so cool that we were like crazy enough to be like, let's drill into an active volcano.

Chieh 50:32

Carolina came out over. Yeah.

Alexis 50:35

And all of the machines came back that like just molten and just like, we lost so much data cuz everything kept on melting. That one always sticks in my head. And acidic

Chieh 50:44

too. Remember the water is so, so acidic.

Alexis 50:46

It was like battery acid. It was like, like pH of one and I think our temperature was at like 500 or something. Ridiculous. Yeah. Our core pipe, it's amazing. Remember it like ate through the core pipe blacken. Yeah. Yeah. That one always kinda sticks out with it.

Chieh 51:02

Yeah. Another one for me was, 1 58 or 1 59 was a tag mount. So it is, we drove into the The, we were talking about s the the spreading zone. Yeah. So there's like black, smoker.

Alexis 51:16

Oh, that's really cool

Chieh 51:17

to go into. And that was kind of unknown at the time. Yeah. That they have done the scientist, the beginning of cruise, the scientists have gone down with submersible and they're showing us all this very dedicated system. A black smoker, there's shrimps and ta, type type of worm. Yeah. All

Alexis 51:32

the

Chieh 51:32

black different worms. Yeah. And then the jar went and we poke I think 17 holes, whole peak. Oh my God. Because we get stuck. Yeah. I had to blow the pipe three for four times. Wow. Because we keep getting stuck. And then, I remember one incident we had a v i t down there is to try to find, which is a camera place. Yeah. It's the camera trying to find a place to spot to, to drill. Cuz you know, it's all. Deposit, right? Yeah. So it's, it's hard stuff. And suddenly the camera went dark, so we thought, oh, they killed the, whatever it is, killed the camera. So the camera died and about, I don't know, a minute or two later, camera came back on. We're like, oh, okay. The camera's okay. It's, it's all, so they keep doing it. And then it brought the, the camera back out. So the camera is, is is mount down this frame that mount around the Joe pipe. And it's a frame. We actually hit a black smoker. We got a meter, a black smoker on the camera, stuck on the, of course the scientists went crazy, right? Yeah. Completely. Never, ever recovered anything like

Alexis 52:39

that by, you couldn't imagine it, but we grabbed it. Yeah, you'd grabbed it with a camera. You grabbed a chunk of black, like everybody,

Chieh 52:45

like, oops, knock over

Alexis 52:48

the chimney. Yeah. I love when stuff like that would come back up. Like, I remember one time we. I think Wayne called me and he was just like, Armstrong, like, we got something on the camera. And it was just like all those like eggs, they were like, like weird, some organism. And I was like, Wayne, honestly, we do not wanna start this. This is like the start of like a sci-fi bad movie where we all end up on a go ship. Like please get that outta there. But sometimes the camera would come back with some crazy stuff or like, we'd have no idea.

Chieh 53:19

Well we, we now have a kin bottle that we mount on the camera frame. Now we can actually put water from the Oh cool. Right by, right by the sea floor. So that's,

Alexis 53:29

that's fantastic. That's actually a really nice add-on chai. That's sweet. Yeah. And this might be a sad one to end it on. Cha, I'm sorry, this is my be It's alright. But the, the program, unfortunately, and it, I was really heartbroken when I heard this and we, we talked about this a little bit before we started this interview, is that the program has come to an end. Could you maybe speak to the last year the program, cause I think it's ending in 2024. Do you know what wrap up looks like yet? And kind of what do you, what do you think is gonna be the next steps for the core repositories and kind of for, for the program?

Chieh 54:06

So, the, right now the program ends, end of September, 2024. Oh my god. Goodness. So the last exhibition will be, 4 0 3, which will end August 2nd, I think 2024 in Amsterdam. That's why we're gonna do the demo demos, demobilization. So have the basic Wow. Take everything off. Yeah. And turn the ship belongs to sim, right? Yeah. So it's a shipping company, so we gotta turn, give the ship back to them cuz the contract. Yeah. So we're gonna spend about two months in Amsterdam to take everything off. Take it apart, but yeah, no, just our stuff. Okay. Ship. We need to go back to them. We don't, don't Yeah. Do anything about the ship itself. And that's up the same, what they wanna do. Yeah. As for what to take off is, is in negotiation right now.

Alexis 54:56

Yeah. I couldn't imagine. Okay. Yeah.

Chieh 54:58

A and m would like to set up a lab back here. Of course the core is gonna stay in a repository for a long time. Good. As for who's gonna fund them? NSF gave us five years to face out. Okay. So slowly people, you know, when the, I guess when the ship. Turn by the same everybody who worked on the shim, like, like, sea flights for us will be, unless they're willing to come back here, but I don't know what kind of job available Yeah. Or be available here. Can work. Yeah. Right. So, they're probably the first group to go. Oh. And then, and then, you know, here we have, it, we have publication or the curation. We also have the engineer. So I assume the engineer will probably leaving. but the curation and the, publication, well every exhibition has about one one year, moratorium. So four, three, being ending in August, 2024 will. 2025. 2025. Yeah. One year automatically. So that will continue. Sciences will continue, get samples and so on, so on. And of co of course, the course will go to Breman because it's in Atlantic Ocean. So Breman will, I don't know, Breman and Cohi. I don't know what their funding situation's like. But for here, like I say a, and I said, well, at least for five years we'll maintain the course. Okay.

Alexis 56:24

And then who knows what funding if a and m

Chieh 56:26

Yeah. If a and m can get funding to set up some kind of lab back here, we'll send some equipment back. That'd be wonderful. And, and that'd be obviously we'll need technical support to some degree. Yeah. That's where they see what's happening. But there's so many. proposed, not official proposal, but show so many talk and discussion going on right now. And I also heard a lot of scientists at the, in the scientific community, if people need a lab tech if one of our tech are willing to go, they, yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to

Alexis 56:59

take them a hundred percent cuz we're, we're very well trained for marine motion. Yeah. So I hope, I hope some people go to maybe the national programs, right? Like to Noah or to maybe some of the other, I don't know. I

Chieh 57:11

mean, you know, you know, is all run by individual university, so I don't know what opportunity they are. I myself gonna retire. Yeah, I will. You're gonna travel around here any anyway? Yeah, yeah,

Alexis 57:26

yeah. You're on your bike, unfortunately.

Chieh 57:27

Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Unfortunately. So, but, you know, we knew this. Program. You know, if you remember you, you have a letter every year for your employment and it's all soft money. So It is, yeah. But you think of it, you know, like what they're saying. If you are any scientific project and get, I don't know, I don't know how many million dollars in one year, it's, it's a pretty, pretty good deal still. Yeah. We've still got five more full exhibition to support. That's

Alexis 57:57

fantastic. At least you still have a couple expeditions going through and then a five year plan of core repository of taking care of it. Yeah, but even like, yes, it's a soft money project, but I never expected the I R D P to go down. Like for me, the I R D P is. Like the NASA of the oceans. And I think for most of the scientific community, like that's, that's kind of an establishment that it's, it's such a big deal. And we've gone from the sixties and every single type of government, like from Republican to Democrat, back to Republican to Democrat, and we've survived all of those big changes in government and also in like world economics and have still stayed through. I just thought that the program was gonna last forever. I really did. It's a shame, you know? Yeah.

Chieh 58:40

You know, that that drone got shut down over in Ukraine or Russia, whatever. Yeah. And that drunk has, that's strong itself, can support the program for two years probably.

Alexis 58:49

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. What it looks at like total spend. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I'm, I'm sorry. It's a, it's a bummer way to end it, but I, I did wanna just, no, it's, did, do wanna like talk about it because the program, unfortunately, like it's just terrible news that it's ending, but. It's just, it's such an amazing program and it, it breaks my heart that it's ending. So maybe one last question, bring it back a little bit. Make it maybe not as, not as sad that it's, it's going to end is Che, if you could maybe give any advice to, a young person listening to this or watching this, who's either in oceanography or becoming a marine tech, what would be your advice to them for someone who's just starting?

Chieh 59:37

Well, I mean, overall, I think you just need to try things out. If you would, you know, if you think you wanna get a job as a marine tech, unfortunately I can't offer you our job anymore. Yes, unfortunately we are hiring temp techs. We're anticipating some, you know, people probably gonna start believing That's true. I don't blame them. You know, they have to look out for themselves. So we probably gonna have some temp tech selling the future ne ne next year. But, I'm pretty sure there's always, similar opportunity out there. I know China just build a new ship. Yeah. You know, European, it just really follow your heart and, and you have to, like I've told you my personal experience, you know, every job you get, you're gonna have a burnout. You're gonna say, oh, I hate this. I don't wanna do this anymore. I don't, you have to kind of take a step back and think about what, what do you want? Do you, like I was saying, I always come back to our job advertisement. Yeah. You're like, this is what I want. Yeah. This is what I want. You know? Yeah. And if that's what you want, you kind of either change your own mentality and say, okay, this is what I want. This is what I'm gonna do. And then there, there every job, there's aspect of. Things are you gonna like Yeah. You know, if you just matter of finding it, how, how do you find it? You know? But also there's no harm just to go try different things.

Alexis 1:01:07

Agreed. You know? Yeah. And try it out. See if you like it, if you don't try something different and like Yeah. I think it's a really good mentality of just like, follow what feels right and then if it Yeah. If it does feel right, and if you're like, yeah, this is the lifestyle, I won't recognize that. It might come with some periods that you're like, yeah, this sucks. Yeah. I've, I've stared at the same 20 faces for two weeks. Like, it's just a part of this, this job. Yeah.

Chieh 1:01:33

Also, there's no harm. You say, you know this, I'm miserable. This is miserable. I really don't wanna do this, then that's fine. Yeah. You mean, I think, I think the worst is people get stuck in that and just can't get themselves out of it, you know? Right. So you, you either change your own mentality, or if you cannot. Get

Alexis 1:01:50

out. That's okay. Yeah. Try something different. Yeah, it's okay too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's okay to restart. You don't have to be feel stuck in it. Yeah. Or like that you're supposed to do something that you don you dislike. Yeah. I think it's good advice, Chay. I like it. Yeah, I think that's a good way to end it cuz I think it works for me. Thank you Chase so much. It was absolutely lovely to have you on the show. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, we should do all. I appreciate a thing again. I would love that. I think that would be fantastic. But, thank you Chay. This has been smoko. Thank you guys for listening so much. And thank you Chay for coming onto the show.